|
|
Post by legoline on Nov 23, 2011 2:01:05 GMT -5
I have an idea for a treat, but the problem (for me) is that a well-known vidder used the exact song I have in mind not too long ago as well.
Does fandom have a netiquette/rule of conduct (I'm sure there's a better word but I can't for my life think of it--it's early) for this kind of thing? Is it okay to "steal" someone's song, particularly if it's a well-known vidder? The fandom and theme of the vid would be totally different, but the song is perfect for the vid, I think.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackiek on Nov 23, 2011 2:07:29 GMT -5
I have an idea for a treat, but the problem (for me) is that a well-known vidder used the exact song I have in mind not too long ago as well. Does fandom have a netiquette/rule of conduct (I'm sure there's a better word but I can't for my life think of it--it's early) for this kind of thing? Is it okay to "steal" someone's song, particularly if it's a well-known vidder? The fandom and theme of the vid would be totally different, but the song is perfect for the vid, I think. The short answer - no. The long answer - back in the day when there were only 6 or 7 vidders this was a definite no no. Now that there are thousands of vidders and practically every song has been used more than once, it is hardly worth noticing. There may be some people who still mind but, most don't care. |
|
|
|
Post by gnattery on Nov 23, 2011 2:53:19 GMT -5
Does that also apply when the other person is pretty definitely going to see it? If, for example, they were on this board? That seems different to me than if it were someone you'd never had any contact with and you didn't have much of a community overlap. What if you only know the song from having seen their vid, or it's obscure enough that it would appear that way to them and others? There's probably lots of different opinions around about this stuff, but I'd like to hear what people think.
(I'm not planning to use a song someone else has, but I'm curious how these things might affect how the song choice is perceived , and who knows I might want to in the future.)
|
|
|
|
Post by obsessive24 on Nov 23, 2011 3:04:32 GMT -5
My answer is also "no", but personally, I think it's quite nice to just drop them a quick line and give them a heads up. You could couch it in a "would it be all right" question; what are they gonna say, no you can't do it? (Although I suppose it's a possibility...)
For me the issue is not so much the vidder of that song would get offended, but that, if that was a very well-loved vid, the way that vid interpreted the music would stick in people's minds and perhaps colour their viewing of your vid, because inevitably your interpretation of the lyrics and the music and how you edit and put things together are not going to be the same. And for me at least, I know I'd be mentally comparing the two just because that's the kind of thing I'd do, although I daresay not everybody would do that.
Elipie - clipping while watching is definitely freeing. ;D I also find that it gives you a better appreciation of the context from which the clip came from.
|
|
|
|
Post by gnattery on Nov 23, 2011 3:16:58 GMT -5
It would probably depend on the vid I guess. There are some songs that for me are just irrevocably tied to a vid, and trying to watch another vid using that song just pulls me right out of the experience. But there are other songs that while I think the choice for using it for a certain vid was brilliant and perfect, I could see it being used for something else quite well. While there are probably big overlaps in people's feelings about already-used songs, there definitely wouldn't be consensus on anything. It's probably slightly different for everyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by legoline on Nov 23, 2011 4:07:27 GMT -5
Thanks for all your suggestions and help  I would definitely let the vidder in question know in advance. (No, seriously. Since the vidder is probably aware how much I loved their vid I would want to give them a fair warning if I was using the same song.) That said, it's a fairly popular song on its own, I'd say--well, not "My Immortal" popular (  ) but it was released as a single and apparently played fairly often on the radio over here (albeit I must admit I heard the song for the first time because of the vid). I know this because I have a friend who hates the song and complained to me about it ;D So it's not exactly and indie-track tied to one specific fanvid--or so I hope? |
|
|
|
Post by dragonchic on Nov 23, 2011 4:15:07 GMT -5
If it's a radio-track, then there's really not much of a reason to believe you'd be "stealing" it. And chances are a hundred other people have made vids to it (maybe not on LJ, but on YT at least). I don't know about anyone else, but I've decided I don't give a damn if someone "steals" a song I've used. If they can vid it better, more power to them. I might be annoyed, yes, but mostly with myself for apparently not making the most of the song.  That said, I'm still unlikely to use the same song as a well-known vid myself, for the same reasons as Nicky. |
|
|
|
Post by sisabet on Nov 24, 2011 2:15:17 GMT -5
What I can say? Try not to default. I've been so lucky to have received awesome vids from pinch-hitters, but I can't lie -- seeing your requests go up for a pinch hit? Kinda sucks. Just jumping in to say - LD and I are both aware of your history, sisabet, and as God is our witness - your requests will not go up for pinch hits this year :-). Ooh, but don't mess up the experiment I have going with myself where I attempt to figure out exactly what it is about my requests that have people running in the other direction -- it might be the heavy 80s emphasis. Or maybe it is me? I can be off-putting unless you know me and then I am just mildly annoying. At this point, I feel like I need to know for SCIENCE |
|
|
|
Post by legoline on Nov 24, 2011 2:33:17 GMT -5
That said, I'm still unlikely to use the same song as a well-known vid myself, for the same reasons as Nicky. I definitely see where you're coming from. But I think since this vid would be a treat for someone and not a regular "public" vid I wouldn't mind the overall reaction to it too much...I think? I'd figure, as long as I make the receiver of the treat happy, I'd be good...and I'd hope that the fact I made a treat for them would let them overlook I used a song someone else did ;D But, where "regular public" vids are concerned, I think you guys bring up a valid point. I don't think I could, for example, ever connect anything other to "Red" but Nicky's "Merlin" vid. sisabet: maybe we should initiate a field study? |
|
|
|
Post by littleheaven on Nov 24, 2011 3:54:52 GMT -5
I think if you're vidding a different fandom and the song is reasonably well-known, then it's okay to go for it. Like others have said, check with the other vidder first if you feel uncomfortable about it. If it's the same fandom, then things get a bit murky. Because vids tend to reflect the story of the song somewhat, that tends to end up looking like you've copied someone's idea. I found a Buffy/Angel vid on YouTube to Alanis Morisette's "You Oughta Know" which was so similar to an old one of mine with the same source and song, for a second I thought they'd recut my own vid. I have no idea if they watched mine and thought they could do a better job, or whether it's just coincidence.  |
|
elipie
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 115
|
Post by elipie on Nov 24, 2011 11:25:16 GMT -5
I think I'm beginning to follow in your footsteps, because I was just defaulted on for the second year in a row!  It's always better to think about a pinch-hitter being really excited to vid one of your requests for you than to think about your original vidder being thrown off by your them. |
|
|
|
Post by franzeska on Nov 24, 2011 13:57:30 GMT -5
I don't think anyone needs to be too worried about the exact details of letters. Mine is really long because I love talking about myself and will take any excuse to do so; other people who are too shy or busy or genuinely don't have strong preferences haven't written them at all. I think I'm beginning to follow in your footsteps, because I was just defaulted on for the second year in a row! Aww.  Does fandom have a netiquette/rule of conduct for this kind of thing? Is it okay to "steal" someone's song, particularly if it's a well-known vidder? The fandom and theme of the vid would be totally different, but the song is perfect for the vid, I think. The question is well-known to whom? It's possible--likely, even--that your vidder won't care about this "rule" at all. Most famous songs will eventually have multiple vids. But even if they did care, have they actually watched the "famous" vid by the "famous" vidder? If they've watched it, do they like that person's work and do they like the fandom? Maybe they wish somebody else would use the song for something they like better but they're not comfortable saying so. Maybe they love the song so much they'll like the next hundred vids to it. Maybe they have no idea anyone's vidded it before anyway. Festivids has, at least by our own self-descriptions, a lot of newbie vidders. I know I haven't seen 99% of what's considered famous and important by, for example, VividCon regulars. I probably wouldn't do a festivid for someone using a song they have used unless they request that in their letter, but I just don't think song re-use is a big deal most of the time. What if you only know the song from having seen their vid, or it's obscure enough that it would appear that way to them and others? My instant snarky response here is that the few times I've seen people complaining about people "stealing" their ideas, it's been for songs and concepts that are so overwhelmingly popular and obvious that I can find dozens of identical vids on youtube without even trying. (Voltaire's When You're Evil with footage of your favorite villain, for example.) I think how that will be perceived depends entirely on how sensitive the person is and how they choose their music. I personally am... uh... really, really, really not sensitive. My song choices fall into two categories: 1. Songs that are hilarious because everyone has heard them and either seen the official video or vids or that movie they featured very prominently in a million times (aka "Let's make VidUKon watch another Holding Out For a Hero vid, elipie!") 2. Music I found after going on another rant about how nobody ever vids interesting music and my taste is so much more awesome than everyone else's For 1, obviously, no one would be surprised to see more re-use, but for 2, I would honestly be really pleased if someone liked that music enough to use it themselves. I've also seen a lot of vidders commenting that they discovered a song via someone else's vids, and I'm shocked because I had no idea anyone didn't already know that song from its incessant radio play or exposure on movie soundtracks. If it charted in the US or UK (or most other places, frankly), I am not going to assume you stole it from me. I am going to assume you either share my taste in music or you intentionally went out looking for new music to vid like I often do. I wouldn't contact the other vidder. Not usually. If someone's my buddy and we've just been hanging out in #vidding for months and they never bothered to tell me they were working in the same song I was, I might be a little weirded out. But most of the time, I work on deflating my own sense of importance and uniqueness, not making it even worse by doing the musical and vidding equivalent of those character claims communities where I get to be the owner of so-and-so's eyebrows in my sig line for the rest of eternity. Seeing a great vid by someone whose work I love to a particular song does usually discourage me from doing that song myself, but only because it's often a sign that I could do the same vid concept more interestingly to another song off of the same album or that there's a more overlooked artist in the same micro-genre who might be even more perfect for what I want. For me, finding a different song to use is (sometimes) an exciting challenge. I wouldn't expect anyone else to avoid a song just because I'd used it. |
|
elipie
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 115
|
Post by elipie on Nov 25, 2011 14:44:12 GMT -5
We totally choose our songs for the same reasons, which is why that idea was perfect.  I think it really depends on what you're personally comfortable with. For the same reasons as everyone else who mentioned it, I personally wouldn't be able to reuse a song to a well-known vid that I really love and have seen a billion times, but at the same time I might not be able to reuse a song that I've seen used in a not-so-well-known vid that I really love and have seen a billion times. It's all the same to me, and I think it's just a matter of tying a song to a vid rather than not wanting to step on anyone's toes. |
|
|
|
Post by legoline on Nov 25, 2011 18:03:04 GMT -5
I think I'll reuse that song if I have time to make the treat. I keep telling myself that the song fits perfectly and the vid is made for one person, not for a "whole fandom" to establish me as a vidder, if that makes any sense? But reading all your thoughts and input is very interesting, you raise a lot of points I hadn't even considered before...
|
|
eunice
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 116
|
Post by eunice on Dec 2, 2011 15:42:28 GMT -5
Instead of actually working on my festivid, I made a virtual festivid SNOWGLOBE. ;D Procrastination is the mother of invention. Or, more like, this is what happens when you leave me alone in a room with After Effects tutorials. fan-eunice.dreamwidth.org/283447.html |
|
) but it was released as a single and apparently played fairly often on the radio over here (albeit I must admit I heard the song for the first time because of the vid). I know this because I have a friend who hates the song and complained to me about it ;D So it's not exactly and indie-track tied to one specific fanvid--or so I hope?
It's always better to think about a pinch-hitter being really excited to vid one of your requests for you than to think about your original vidder being thrown off by your them.
