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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:55:37 GMT -5
I think winterjasmine just nailed it. I've had similiar thoughts. Aww, you're very kind. The idea of me nailing anything on 4 hours sleep in the past 29 makes me ;D Jaz |
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Post by legoline on Nov 12, 2011 12:56:11 GMT -5
Vidding is just completely different, and it's a process, a craft, which requires quite a different way of thinking when you're trying to communicate visually for the first time. Yes. This. Also, I think it's because we all learn how to critique stories and novels at school. We spend years writing essays and tests about style, technique and narrative in novels, so it's easy to apply that to fanfic. But I remember distinctively the first time I went to a module on film studies at university. I had to write an essay on the opening minutes of Hitchcock's North by Northwest and while it was fascinating and educating it was also utterly tricky because I just had no idea how to "read" a movie. |
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eunice
Pub Enthusiast
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Post by eunice on Nov 12, 2011 12:59:11 GMT -5
:nods: definitely. The process of a 'first draft' of a vid still completely baffles me! I know how to do that with fic, I understand the process. But with vids? Not a clue, I can't even work that concept!  I was kinda saying something about this on another thread, but one of the keys for me was when I started seeing other vidders drafts and vids in progress from start to finish. The more you exchange things as you're working on them, the better feel you get for seeing how they form and what the steps are along the way (laying down structure, temporary clips which are idea based while you look for the right visual, untimed jumbles, etc.) It's hard to know what's just part of the ride, and what's an actual problem along the way when other vidder's processes are so opaque. Usually what we see is the finished process which looks effortless and shiny even when it may not have been a few days ago.  |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 13:01:19 GMT -5
eunice - maybe in conjunction with your public beta idea, we should rope some poor soul into doing a transparent "how a vid is made from start to finish" showcase. ;D
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Post by legoline on Nov 12, 2011 13:07:16 GMT -5
eunice - maybe in conjunction with your public beta idea, we should rope some poor soul into doing a transparent "how a vid is made from start to finish" showcase. ;D I'm in favour! (But not volounteering ;D ) |
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 13:53:19 GMT -5
:nods: definitely. The process of a 'first draft' of a vid still completely baffles me! I know how to do that with fic, I understand the process. But with vids? Not a clue, I can't even work that concept! I was kinda saying something about this on another thread, but one of the keys for me was when I started seeing other vidders drafts and vids in progress from start to finish. The more you exchange things as you're working on them, the better feel you get for seeing how they form and what the steps are along the way (laying down structure, temporary clips which are idea based while you look for the right visual, untimed jumbles, etc.) It's hard to know what's just part of the ride, and what's an actual problem along the way when other vidder's processes are so opaque. Usually what we see is the finished process which looks effortless and shiny even when it may not have been a few days ago. I find I learn such a lot just from watching other vidders interact in forums like this. You can pick up the terminology and lots of tips just by reading. I would absolutely be interested in your 'public beta' and obsessive24's 'how a vid is made' ideas Jaz |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 19:06:49 GMT -5
I went out to dinner and thought about this. If there's real interest, I might be in a position to make my next vid process public. I'm not overly invested in this vid idea so I'm not gonna be preciously  as with some of my other vids. And if it really will help some people, then I'll get over the public humiliation aspect. I have to think over the logistics though. |
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nos
Pub Regular
Posts: 95
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Post by nos on Nov 12, 2011 19:08:44 GMT -5
I wonder if software like fraps would work for making a video? I imagine making a 'public vid process' vid and showing the vidder laying clips and talking...
I would totally step up for that, aside from the fact that most of my process is cursing, squeeing over accidental perfect timing, and more cursing.
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 19:39:51 GMT -5
I was more thinking of "working days" where the vidder would upload a copy of the draft as it currently stands at the end of every working day, and maybe a screencap of the program timeline, and any notes of signficant things that happened today in the vid's construction. Something that's more like a live tutorial seems like it'd be quite strenuous on the vidder. Personally, I vid in complete silence, so talking while I'm doing seems quite a lot of work...
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Post by gnattery on Nov 12, 2011 21:08:15 GMT -5
That vid-in-process idea is actually something I've always wished to see. For about the first year or so I would sit in front of Vegas and just be like... Okay, this is great, but how to make vid? I never mentioned the idea to anyone, because obviously it's kind of intrusive, and I don't know any other vidders that well. But a look into the process for someone who already kind of has a vidding "method" would be so so helpful. By "method" I mean that they're already over the huge hurdle of being a newbie vidder. They're already comfortable that they know how to vid, rather than still learning it at the same time as making each vid. Their process is streamlined, they pretty much know what to do next, and only get stuck on the particulars of that vid. If any of you would be happy to do that I would be really grateful. I think it would make a good thread here, or maybe a series of LJ posts. I'd give feedback for them, I promise.  |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 8:17:50 GMT -5
I'm willing to do it, and theoretically I'm just about to start a vid. But I'm not sure exactly when I'll get around to it, so I didn't want to commit to this and then take ages and ages to start, or not start at all. I should know for certain in the next few days though, and if I do start, I'll start a new thread showing the process in terms of "working days". |
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Post by sdwolfpup on Nov 15, 2011 22:21:33 GMT -5
I actually started a "see-through vidding" project once, for Greensilver's original Sweet Charity vid idea she had, but time and the motivation got away from me and I never got further than my public storyboarding. I had planned to do as you said, post a new draft whenever I worked on it and comment on the things I had changed that day. I'd be interested in seeing someone else do it!
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 16, 2011 3:26:10 GMT -5
I've done two working days and so far so good. ;D I hope I carry through with it even if it's sh!te. The public element does help to be a kick in the ass, in the good way.  |
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Post by franzeska on Nov 21, 2011 17:16:42 GMT -5
but that's only my perspective from my little corner of the internet. What are your experiences? I'm a new-ish vidder, so everything is shiny and new and exciting to me. It's just like any time I've joined a big, popular, active fandom. Since getting out of big fandoms ~10 years ago, I feel like I've mostly been doing fandom in a late-night solo bubble, particularly with my writing. When I started vidding, it was the first time I regularly hadn't felt like that in years. It's like Yuletide all year round now. It's amazing. Maybe it's a difference in how I approach the mediums or how willing I am to be critiqued and to revise, but I've never had the slightest luck finding a beta reader I was comfortable with while I found tons of helpful vidders as soon as I went looking. Vidding, as a community, is much more appropriate for my taste for tiny fandoms and multiple types of pairing. I definitely agree that the barriers to entry have been reduced dramatically in the last few years. I was simply not interested until I could pick it up from tutorials without seeking out tech gurus who would make me feel like a moron. (Sorry, AMV community, but you are not very nice to un-technical n00bs or I'd have gotten into this a decade ago.) How much of a traditional vidding aesthetic I've picked up, I'm not sure. Maybe having a mentor would have helped; maybe not. I know MVD's vids absolutely blew me away the first time I saw one of them, and I didn't need a primer or an introduction. Other vids have been totally impenetrable to me. When I first decided I was going to try vidding, I searched LJ for vidding meta, and much of it made me recoil in horror. I wish I'd kept notes on what I hated about it because I honestly can't remember. I definitely got the sense that I'd have rather gone and read an editing book or a tech tutorial than fandom meta on aesthetics at that point. Some of the obvious things people always point out like super long clips and talkyface were useful to see, but I remember thinking that a lot of the advice I was seeing was assuming a hell of a lot about the full scope of vids in terms of what your point was and what kind of music you were using. A lot of youtube vids seem like they are quite literally and intentionally favorite clips set to a favorite song. They're not meant to be rewatched; they're meant to remind you and the person you send the link to of how much you liked that show/movie/whatever. Like other youtube videos, the point is the shared social bond. Too much subtle narrative would make for a youtube vid that wouldn't pop enough to be worth sharing. That's the feeling I get from youtube anyway. But the favorite music thing... All vids seem like that to me. AMVs ten years ago (when I was paying attention) were almost always to the same wretched nü-metal. Old media fandom vids seem to favor cheeseball showstoppers from people like Bonnie Tyler. The banality of eight thousand Korn vids or eight thousand Ke$ha vids doesn't bother me... until I see meta from any vidding community about how there's something special about one sort of music but this other sort is just so-and-so's favorite songs. (A favorite theme in everybody's vidding meta from every community!) That sends me into a towering rage in about ten seconds flat. It's like going to a hipster party and having each and every person there tell you that their musical taste is "eclectic" because they like three different types of indie from the same non-independent label.  We vid the music that has emotional resonance for us. Only very rarely, at least based on people's posts about their process, do we go out looking for music for an extant vid concept as though we're scoring a film. |
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Post by astarte on Nov 21, 2011 18:30:50 GMT -5
You raised a lot of interisting points, franzeska. There was vidding meta out there years ago that made me do the opposite on purpose, because honestly? No, just no. Heh.
And I agree about music, I just started this year to search for songs to an extant mood/narrative without bothering with my personal music taste. It's an interesting experience to say at least and really different from how I usually approached music.
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as with some of my other vids. And if it really will help some people, then I'll get over the public humiliation aspect. I have to think over the logistics though.
We vid the music that has emotional resonance for us. Only very rarely, at least based on people's posts about their process, do we go out looking for music for an extant vid concept as though we're scoring a film.