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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 10, 2011 17:42:34 GMT -5
Just wondering if anyone else is feeling as though the vidding community is drifting apart, not as tightly-knit or as responsive as previous years?
I primarily hang out on LiveJournal and feel it the most there, although I'm also seeing a decline in participation in awards websites. From my corner of the internet, it almost feels like there's a universal decrease in interest in vids/vidding, but that's only my perspective from my little corner of the internet. What are your experiences?
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xandra
New to the Pub
Posts: 49
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Post by xandra on Nov 11, 2011 3:26:58 GMT -5
Not so much in vidding but the community part of it. I think it's changed so much because it's so much easier to vid now days than it was even six years ago. There is so much source out there that's really easy to, editing programs that come with the computer and youtube.
When I started vidding Buffy back in 2002(?) it seemed like everyone was vidding btvs and ats. It was the common source was holding us together and we were all trying to get the highest quality and newest effects and editing techniques, and we started to lose that cohesion when we branched out and moved onto other sources.
I felt that when vidding got easy, it became a back burner hobby for the community cause we weren't getting enough new blood and we had other things to do (thank you recession).
Plus LJ (i thought so back then too) was no replacement for a forum. My flist filled up so fast I never notice if I missed a com post and when I did it was always too late.
So yes, I agree but I think of it more as dying off. People moved on and there was no one to replace them.
(sorry if my grammar is off, I'm doing NaNoWriMo and my brain is melted)
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Post by killabeez on Nov 11, 2011 5:54:48 GMT -5
changed so much because it's so much easier to vid now days than it was even six years ago... ...and we had other things to do (thank you recession). I think you hit on a lot of the reasons that I see, but particularly these two. It used to be that you really needed a mentor (or mentors) to begin vidding, and that led to strong connections and discussions about vidding aesthetics and storytelling techniques and so forth. And for me, and many people I know, that last one is especially significant. I don't have the kind of time (or mental clarity—stress and less sleep makes me less creative), and I can't afford to take trips all over the country to meet up with friends to vid. That means if I do vid, it's a solo, late-night affair. |
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eunice
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 116
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Post by eunice on Nov 11, 2011 9:11:33 GMT -5
Hrm...yeah. I think it's absolutely fantastic that the technical bar has been lowered enough that making vids is open to just about anyone who is interested without having to, like, learn a secret handshake and sacrifice a goat to Premiere to get started. It tickles me to see so many people going 'I had this idea so I made this vid!'
On the other hand I think it does make it more difficult to find people for whom vidding is a primary fannish interest as opposed to a supplementary one, and conversations about/by the former are harder to come by these days.
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 6:23:01 GMT -5
It used to be that you really needed a mentor (or mentors) to begin vidding, and that led to strong connections and discussions about vidding aesthetics and storytelling techniques and so forth. And for me, and many people I know, that last one is especially significant. Hmm, I'm gonna get in hot water for making such a gross generalisation here, but the storytelling part of it, the part where you get a strong narrative in-vid that's not just dependent on where the plot went but also how the vidder interpreted it and read deeper, I don't see that as often as I like in work by new vidders. The techniques and effects work and mood/atmosphere that I see on many YouTube vids - absolutely breathtaking beautiful and intricate. But I'm often hard-pressed to find a narrative flow, clear character/relationship development, all that. I know different communities place different emphasis on different things, be it tech or storytelling or whatever, but it does feel to me that this narrative tradition, which I still mostly see predominantly on LJ (and somewhat associated, VVC), that's starting to fall away a bit as some of the older LJ vidders stop vidding and there's this sense that there's no one new coming to replace them or take on the mantle or whatever. Maybe I'm just talking out of my arse. Just got up and I haven't had my coffee. And, you know, I think there's always goiing to be people who are looking for the narrative aspect in vidding. It's the case of your community shaping how your vidding, but also, I think, finding the right community to suit your vidding vision. On the other hand I think it does make it more difficult to find people for whom vidding is a primary fannish interest as opposed to a supplementary one, and conversations about/by the former are harder to come by these days. It's interesting to hear you say that. To me, vidding had always been my fandom; I just didn't know it at the start. So back in 2005 I think you could have called me a Firefly vidder (because I knocked out something like 15 Firefly vids that year), but it was only because that was the only source I had. As I found more DVDs and got used to ripping, it was like, of course I'm gonna vid other fandoms. And the more fandoms you vid, I guess the more you're vidding for vidding, rather than vidding for fandom? Not sure if that correlation is direct, but my general feel is that if you have the mindset where you just love to explore aspects of vidding and how music pairs to visuals and narrative structure and all that, then even if you started off vidding for a particular fandom, eventually the vidding aspect will become your primary interest. To me it doesn't really turn on the availability of tech. |
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Post by recycledmedia on Nov 12, 2011 10:12:33 GMT -5
I guess I'm getting old, but for awhile it seemed the vids were like 'this is my favorite song and these are my favorite clips so I'll put them together for a vid'. Which is fine, but I kept looking for 'what's the point of this vid'. I seem to prefer a storyline or character study or something to pull it together for a reason.
I like the tech to be able to add to my vid, but the vid is for the fandom. FWIW, just MHO.
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:02:13 GMT -5
It used to be that you really needed a mentor (or mentors) to begin vidding, and that led to strong connections and discussions about vidding aesthetics and storytelling techniques and so forth. And for me, and many people I know, that last one is especially significant. I don't have the kind of time (or mental clarity—stress and less sleep makes me less creative), and I can't afford to take trips all over the country to meet up with friends to vid. That means if I do vid, it's a solo, late-night affair. This really struck a chord with me. I was a fanfic writer before I was a vidder, and I had a really great beta reader who was kind of like a mentor to me. She was a far better writer than me, and helped me avoid the pitfalls of a young teen starting out in the world of fanfic. This is what I have really been missing as I started out vidding. I mentioned in my 'intro' post, I feel like I've been vidding in a bubble. I've read and read as much about the 'art' for want of a better word of vidding - the 'aesthetics and storytelling techniques and so forth' that you talk about. And I've watched and watched many different types of vids, and read other people's comments and tried to learn. But this kind of, second hand way of learning is so far inferior to having, as you say, a mentor to guide you personally. I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, vidding for me has been a late-night solo affair too, and I know that as long as it is, my ability to learn will be affected, and I certainly won't improve as fast as I did back when I wrote fanfic. Jaz |
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Post by legoline on Nov 12, 2011 12:07:53 GMT -5
I was a fanfic writer before I was a vidder, and I had a really great beta reader who was kind of like a mentor to me. She was a far better writer than me, and helped me avoid the pitfalls of a young teen starting out in the world of fanfic. This is what I have really been missing as I started out vidding. I mentioned in my 'intro' post, I feel like I've been vidding in a bubble. I've read and read as much about the 'art' for want of a better word of vidding - the 'aesthetics and storytelling techniques and so forth' that you talk about. And I've watched and watched many different types of vids, and read other people's comments and tried to learn. But this kind of, second hand way of learning is so far inferior to having, as you say, a mentor to guide you personally. This. I second every word of this. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 12:10:47 GMT -5
I'm curious now - where did you get that fic mentor, in the first place? And why is it harder to get a vid mentor than it is to get a fic mentor? I'm not challenging that it is, just wondering why it's the case.  |
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Post by gnattery on Nov 12, 2011 12:16:20 GMT -5
Thirded. I wonder if that's as much to do with the format as anything else. Sure, you can send someone a half-finished vid, but it's a lot more inconvenient. And it's a lot more awkward to try to point to a particular *thing*, when that *thing* might be an idea instead of a time frame. If you're only communicating online, someone can't look over your shoulder and point to your timeline. It's like you have to translate and re-translate all advice from words into video and back again.
I'm just guessing.
I've definitely felt this though, and often wished I could find that kind of mentor situation for vidding.
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Post by legoline on Nov 12, 2011 12:18:20 GMT -5
I'm curious now - where did you get that fic mentor, in the first place? And why is it harder to get a vid mentor than it is to get a fic mentor? I'm not challenging that it is, just wondering why it's the case. In my case it's probably because I was really active in the fandom that really got me into fic writing. It was easier to find people due to that common interest, I guess. I had lots of people from the fandom on my flist so when I made an "Can anybody help me?" post, someone was certain to show up. Also my fandom had a "Beta" community where you could post an ad, for example. But I'm completely out of fandom--any fandom, really--I feel, and I tend to vid tiny obscure fandoms that presumably five people but me love as much as I do. It's harder to find mentors that way, I think. (The day that I vid Doctor Who will be a glorious one ;D ) Also, I wonder if it's really the format as gnattery suggested. I'm not sure I'd know how to beta a vid myself, frankly. |
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:41:23 GMT -5
I'm curious now - where did you get that fic mentor, in the first place? And why is it harder to get a vid mentor than it is to get a fic mentor? I'm not challenging that it is, just wondering why it's the case. We met through Farscape fandom and were friends for a while before she became my beta. It was a natural process, she having been writing for a lot longer than me. I didn't set out to find a mentor, it was just the way our friendship worked out I think this touches on what legoline mentions. Finding fanfic writers in any particular fandom is quite easy, a lot of people in any particular fandom write fic. Finding vidders is more complex, it feels like a smaller community, and one that is slightly separate from the show fandoms. Even here on this brand new forum you have a lot of different people who are active (or not) in many different fandoms. I'm not sure exactly what I'm trying to say here... heh I think its about finding common interests, common fannish interests, common vidding interests and styles, all in a community that seems quite fragmented, if that's the right word. Often a fanfic writer will be active in a fandom before they start posting fic (or they've been posting fic since before anyone else can remember, in which case they probably are the mentor anyway). When you're moving from show fandoms into vidding fandoms, you're a stranger in the community, which means friendships have to be started all over again, which takes time - particularly on the internet, to build trust, and find those common things I was rambling about above  Apologies for lack of sense / spelling etc. Just finished nights last night, so the world is a little blurry round the edges  Jaz |
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Post by legoline on Nov 12, 2011 12:43:57 GMT -5
I think winterjasmine just nailed it. I've had similiar thoughts.
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:51:07 GMT -5
This. I second every word of this. There's something about learning the craft that is different to writing fic, isn't there? sweetestdrain wrote in the feedback thread: Everyone knows how to talk about fic because we're all trained to react to narrative -- it was so cool when Tony Stark did that thing with the arc reactor! omg he and Steve got married and it was awesome! -- but with vids, narrative is by nature a little bit more subjective... We all write, every day, from shopping lists to Christmas cards, at work and at home. We've all written since we were very young and we understand, intuitively how that works. That's how we communicate on a day to day basis - with words. Vidding is just completely different, and it's a process, a craft, which requires quite a different way of thinking when you're trying to communicate visually for the first time. That's why communities like this are so important. Think how you learnt to read and write - somehow we need to apply that to learning how to vid... Jaz |
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:53:11 GMT -5
Thirded. I wonder if that's as much to do with the format as anything else. Sure, you can send someone a half-finished vid, but it's a lot more inconvenient. And it's a lot more awkward to try to point to a particular *thing*, when that *thing* might be an idea instead of a time frame. If you're only communicating online, someone can't look over your shoulder and point to your timeline. It's like you have to translate and re-translate all advice from words into video and back again. I'm just guessing. I've definitely felt this though, and often wished I could find that kind of mentor situation for vidding. :nods: definitely. The process of a 'first draft' of a vid still completely baffles me! I know how to do that with fic, I understand the process. But with vids? Not a clue, I can't even work that concept!  Jaz |
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