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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 12:26:45 GMT -5
Not sure if this idea would take off as its own thread because we're already touching on it elsewhere, but I'm tempted to open it up and see if anyone jumps in. If you a newbie to vidding as a practice and/or vidding as a community of people, what are some of the specific challenges that you face? And what are your thoughts on how it could be addressed? Some of the concepts I've seen kicked around recently include things like: not feeling welcomed/supported by the community, not knowing where/how to find a mentor, not knowing the basic tech to really get started, not knowing "the right way" to give feedback... It would be brilliant if this could open up a dialogue between vidding newbies and oldbies and middleagedbies. I feel like we as a community have a lot of love and help and past experience to give and share, but it's just not always clear where it is wanted and needed. And all the newbie lurkers who are reading this thread - I know you are out there, you minxes.  I don't know how better to put it than to sincerely ask anyone who wants to participate in this conversation to simply pop in and do so. (Although of course it's totally fine if you honestly don't want to engage - I'm not knocking lurking per se, just don't like the idea of someone who truly wants to speak but feel like they won't be heard or aren't allowed to, for whatever reason.) |
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Post by legoline on Nov 12, 2011 12:39:39 GMT -5
When I decided to give vidding another go a few months back I found it incredibly hard to gather information on software, how to rip clips, how to convert, what programs to use etc. I ended up reading everything on www.foolishpassion.org, and that was a great start, but it was really tricky when I ran into problems--for example they use Streamclip in their tutorials and that program just won't run on my computer. So I spent days googling other options, trying to get the programs to run and to bloody do what I wanted. (I ran into similiar problems a week ago when I just couldn't get mkv files converted to SonyVegas compatible files). I really wished then that I'd have a mentor, or at least a friendly place to go, "Uhm, help, I just can't get this to work!" There is vidding_tech over at LJ and I've used it twice but only as a last resort. I feel it's easier to just ask a friend rather than making an "official" post in a tech community. (I don't know if this makes sense to anyone but me ;-) ) I actually went looking for an active vidding forum a few times but to no avail (having this forum now fills me with joy). It feels like there's tons of info out there, but it's scattered all across the internet and if you hit a wall you don't have anyone to hold your hand. I remember when I finished my first vid (which I never posted) I very shyly asked Charmax if she could look at it just to let me know if I was at least headed into the right direction vidding-wise and she gave me some really useful advice (for examples, I had mucked up the aspect/ratio - as you do  ) and that was really, really helpful. But it took all my courage to ask her and...I sort of didn't want to bother her too much |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 19:01:28 GMT -5
*nods* I often feel like there's this resounding silence whenever someone posts a tech question in the vidding community. There's usually some responses, but never really a lot of people jumping in enthusiastically to answer the question. Maybe it's just because nobody knows, but I'm not sure I believe that, because I've seen how much some people know. In any case, I feel like this forum is gonna be a place where people will be enthusiastic to respond, even if they don't know how to solve the problem, haha. So, um, is that a step in the right direction? Or not really? At least I think the friendly open part is shaping up nicely.  Charmax is a dear. Which reminds me, I haven't seen her sign up yet. Must go hunt her down and kick her arse all the way over to the pub, cos I'm nice and gentle like that. But, on-topic, I do feel like it's difficult to initiate a one-on-one conversation. Even if the other person is terribly nice - which hopefully most people are - because you are cold-calling for them to spend time and energy on a favour from someone they might not know very well. It'd be so much nicer if you knew they were open to it or actively volunteering in some capacity. Having said that, I think that vidding mentoring can be quite a time-consuming exercise, so even if someone were open to it and volunteers initially, they might quickly hit their saturation point after a few requests and just not be able to take more on. I don't have much of a gauge yet as to how much demand and supply there might be for this, but that's something to consider. Again, maybe the pub is a way to spread that "burden" around, so no one person feels like they're giving more than they have the time and energy for? |
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Post by gnattery on Nov 12, 2011 21:30:29 GMT -5
I definitely think that could come of it. Everyone seems so happy and enthusiastic, and I think there are enough experienced vidders here that it's not going to be like a handful of people trying to teach a large group of newbies. Hopefully it won't get too overwhelming, but if it ever does, you guys should be sure to speak up. I certainly wouldn't want this forum to become a burden for anyone. And as us newbies become more experienced, we can help out too! I think there's a good starting ratio here.
I remember when I decided to start vidding, I tried to keep my asking for help minimal. I sent Nicky a PM on livejournal asking for advice on what editing software people use, since I had no idea at all. And that was it. Everything else I just tried to pick up from lurking, which is... a very slow way to learn.
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Post by rokikurama on Nov 13, 2011 3:29:52 GMT -5
Honestly, it took doing a graduate degree in digital animation for me to get enough confidence and knowledge of software for me to push through and actually get to the point of making something. I, ah, wouldn't recommend that road  I started back when I was an undergrad trying to make an AMV but got stuck at the "rip footage from DVD" stage since the program just wouldn't work on my computer and I was too afraid to ask further since the forums over there at animemusicvideos.org can be a little intimidating. I like this forum, though! It feels very friendly and even though I'm only working on my first vid (hopefully soon to be second vid so my poor Festivid recipient can be happy!) I like being able to contribute to chat and share my AE knowledge. |
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 13, 2011 4:33:13 GMT -5
At least I think the friendly open part is shaping up nicely. :nods: definitely shaping up nicely  Even if the other person is terribly nice - which hopefully most people are - because you are cold-calling for them to spend time and energy on a favour from someone they might not know very well. It'd be so much nicer if you knew they were open to it or actively volunteering in some capacity. This, exactly. I remember when I decided to start vidding, I tried to keep my asking for help minimal. I sent Nicky a PM on livejournal asking for advice on what editing software people use, since I had no idea at all. And that was it. Everything else I just tried to pick up from lurking, which is... a very slow way to learn. :nods: When I started putting a toe into the vidding pool a couple of years ago, like legoline I found FoolishPashion a great place to start for tutorials, and I had a little help on the forum over there too, which was the only way I really got started. But there is always the sense of 'cold calling' if you ask people directly, and, let's face it, first drafts of newbie vids can be fairly dire - or maybe that's just mine Jaz |
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Post by legoline on Nov 13, 2011 6:33:50 GMT -5
At least I think the friendly open part is shaping up nicely. Oh yes. It's really wonderful and I've been hanging out here more than I probably should. But I haven't really talked to other vidders since I started dabbling in vidding, and it is really, really cool to be doing that now. I think I've learned more about vidding since yesterday than in the past couple of months. Charmax is a dear. Which reminds me, I haven't seen her sign up yet. Must go hunt her down and kick her arse all the way over to the pub, cos I'm nice and gentle like that. Yes, please do  (And she totally is.) But, on-topic, I do feel like it's difficult to initiate a one-on-one conversation. Even if the other person is terribly nice - which hopefully most people are - because you are cold-calling for them to spend time and energy on a favour from someone they might not know very well. Exactly. I don't hold it against anyone if they don't have time to do a beta--I mean, I would probably barely have the time, either. But I think it'd still be cool to have at least a place to post an ad and ask for help. If everyone's busy or no one offers for other reasons then that's bad luck, but it'd still be great if at least there were this place to turn to, and I hope this forum could might be it |
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Post by amnisias on Nov 13, 2011 8:20:08 GMT -5
[...]I really wished then that I'd have a mentor, [...] Maybe this is something we should consider doing? Having something like a Mentor thread where newbies/youngbies can link up with somebody who uses a similar/same set up and is offering to mentor. I think the problem with limited feed-back on tech forums/comms is that it can potentially be quite time consuming to provide an answer, and not everybody gets back to you with a 'Thanks, that worked' or a 'Kinda work and now I'm stuck at a different problem'. In a 1:1 relationship it would be easier to talk to somebody through stuff, because the mentor would build up a knowledge base of the set-up the other person uses, and what they've already covered e.t.c. It also would maybe help with people feeling more welcome (if they don't already do) and integrate into the community. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 8:28:28 GMT -5
Ideally I would love it if we could pair people up 1:1, but I think in order for that to work, that relationship has to evolve organically for two like-minded people to figure out that they're work well together, you know? Maybe have shared programs and shared fandoms and similar approaches or visions as to what they want to achieve. So I'm not sure if it's going to work if we try for a more structured approach by officially matching people up...
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Post by amnisias on Nov 13, 2011 9:29:56 GMT -5
Maybe have shared programs and shared fandoms and similar approaches or visions as to what they want to achieve. So I'm not sure if it's going to work if we try for a more structured approach by officially matching people up... I know, it's tricky, and it might not be the thing for everybody. I was just wondering if there was a place where people were offering to mentor some people would find it easier to ask for that kind of support because you feel less that your imposing yourself. But I'm not sure, I'm just rambeling ...  |
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Post by amnisias on Nov 13, 2011 9:31:35 GMT -5
[...] Some of the concepts I've seen kicked around recently include things like: not feeling welcomed/supported by the community, [...] Written from a middleagedbie perspective (both in RL and in the vidding fandom:) I don't know whether my observations are useful or not, but you shall have them anyway . I was reading through the Welcome thread yesterday and was very much reminded of my first experience of vidding fandom on LJ a few years back. A large number of people on the board already know each other from other spaces and even RL and that is evident in the way people communicate with each other, e.g. referencing RL stuff or previous shared experiences. It's not that I felt 'not welcomed' when I first joined LJ or went to VVC, it's just requires a certain amount of confidence to penetrate those communities. My experience is that if you make contact the response is mostly welcoming and friendly, and if you keep at it you can join the community, but it requires a fair bit of commitment and time. Most people have busy lives, and already have huge flists and naturally are more likely to interact with old friends rather than a new kid on the block . This problem is compounded by the fact that most new people gravitate to the same well known vidders because they are much easier to locate than other newbies. (And because we all are shallow and want to hang with the popular crowd - just like high-school ). I don't think I truly connected to anybody on LJ until I went to VVC, and obviously that's not really a feasible solution. I can see how people can experience this situation as 'not welcoming' and feel too intimidated to even try or just lurk without participating much. However, it's not different to situations in real life where you are trying to make friends with a group of people who already know each other. But I don't think there is an easy solution to it, apart from encouraging newbies to participate and reminding oldbies to be mindful to include new people. In retrospect, this post is not actually that useful, but it's taken me too frikking long to delete it, so I'll post it anyway.  |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 11:23:57 GMT -5
amnisias - by all means, open a Mentor Mart thread if you feel that would be encouraging! And I agree with everything you said. It doesn't seem realistic to expect people who know each other to act as though they don't, but I hope any existing relationships don't preclude newbies from at least popping in and saying hi. As for oldbies, I hope everyone will be considerate enough to stop their conversations with their friends long enough to at least say hi back, and not make newbies feel like they're being ignored or unwanted. To me, that's just common courtesy, not just online but in RL as well. I'm sure lots of people have had the experience of being at a party and you don't know anyone, and you're just standing smiling on the edge of a crowd of talking people, hoping someone will notice you standing there and move over and make a space so you can actually join the group. It really amazes me how often that doesn't happen and you end up slinking away to nibble at the food table. It's not that much to ask, surely.
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eunice
Pub Enthusiast
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Post by eunice on Nov 13, 2011 11:44:07 GMT -5
amnesias - It's definitely a conundrum, because a lot of us have known each other for years, and I do think it's really important to remember that in interacting both with each other and newbies in a public space. I WANT to talk to new people and bounce ideas and learn stuff from them as well as pass on what I know.
Because I also think it's really good for newbies to form connections with each other (which will eventually become the oldbies in the same position, heh), because there's something in that dynamic that oldbies can't bring to the table. Not knowing the 'rules' or the 'way things are done' frees people up to be awesomely creative in their mistakes or take vids in new directions or do things in new ways and that's AWESOME. I worry that if the dynamic is too 'Oldbie teaches Newbie the Way Things Are' that we become static and rigid, and it lends to the whole 'I can't vid unless someone takes me by the hand, and how do I break in' vibe that troubles me.
New kids on the block have just as much to teach me as I have to teach them, and I think we forget that too easily.
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Post by legoline on Nov 13, 2011 12:17:40 GMT -5
New kids on the block have just as much to teach me as I have to teach them, and I think we forget that too easily. I love that. I'm getting all mushy over here |
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kuwdora
New to the Pub
squeedora
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Post by kuwdora on Nov 14, 2011 18:36:49 GMT -5
I've actually spent a bit of time thinking about the 1:1 nature of pairing people off. When I have some time in the next day or so (when I am not clipping, hah), I'll come back and try to elaborate upon some ideas I had or brainstormed with some other people.
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I don't know how better to put it than to sincerely ask anyone who wants to participate in this conversation to simply pop in and do so. (Although of course it's totally fine if you honestly don't want to engage - I'm not knocking lurking per se, just don't like the idea of someone who truly wants to speak but feel like they won't be heard or aren't allowed to, for whatever reason.)
) and that was really, really helpful. But it took all my courage to ask her and...I sort of didn't want to bother her too much 
(And she totally is.)
