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Post by winterjasmine on Dec 14, 2011 13:08:23 GMT -5
Um, yes, what you've all said about the not-knowing how to respond to vids when one has been immersed in ficdom for years. That's exactly the problem I have when leaving feedback - I want to be supportive, but it's difficult to find the words for a detailed comment of exactly what I liked. I'm confused because I'm not sure what exactly is the difference? I haven't been involved in ficdom for years, but to memory, I've never found it difficult to jump between commenting on fic and commenting on vids. I just give an overall description of my reaction, plus point out specific bits that I liked, whether it's a particularly cool turn of phrase or a great bit of musicality, whether it's a wonderful story concept or a cool vid idea. I mean, I'm definitely not doubting that "fic people" sometimes have trouble giving vid feedback, but I'm not sure specifically what the issue is? Is it a lack of technical vocabulary? But when you give feedback to fic, is technical vocabulary the thing you focus on, anyway? Or more on how the story was beautifully put together and made you feel? It doesn't seem to me that you need particularly technical knowledge of how it's written in order to comment on a fic. I'm just not sure why there's a distinction being drawn, and what is it about vids that makes people think they need to be savvy in tech or vidding vocab before they could make a meaningful comment? I can't speak for anyone else, but for my part I find it difficult to translate into text what I've enjoyed from an essentially visual medium. As a new vidder I'd certainly put part of that down to a lack of knowledge of the technical vocabulary of vidding. I think a part of it is also a feeling of not having anything of any worth to talk about. I'm coming back to this thread after a few weeks, so I've probably talked about this before  There's something about having the confidence to talk about something that as a new vidder you might not actually know a lot about. The times I've written a comment and then deleted it, because I don't think I'm adding anything to the conversation... trying to resist just that urge right now!  Jaz |
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 14, 2011 13:39:22 GMT -5
But you don't feel that way about fic, I take it? Why not? Is it because you are a writer yourself? Or do you think you'd still be able to write feedback for fic even if you're not a writer?
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Post by legoline on Dec 15, 2011 2:10:04 GMT -5
I guess we all know how to write feedback on text. I mean, we spend endless hours in school doing exactly that, interpret it and study it and write essays and tests on and about it. It's fairly easy to apply that to fanfiction because we know what we're looking for, or at least we know some of the terminology and basic structure of texts.
Vids, on the other hand, are unchartered territory to most of us. We did watch some films at school, but we only discussed the content and dialogue. It wasn't until I took a film studies class at university that I learned to name the different camera angles and shots correctly. The first time I wrote a paper about an opening sequence of a film (it was North by Northwest) I felt exactly the same as today when I want to give concrit or plain feedback on vids. It's hard to translate the visuals into text, maybe because I never properly learned how to do it.
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 15, 2011 3:11:00 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe that's it. I did some film study at school sort of by the by. I remember analysing Luhrmann's Romeo & Juliet and Julie Taymor's Titus Andronicus for an English exam. ;D so maybe the terminology soaked through at the time.
But I think it kind of goes back to my point of, what are you trying to write feedback on? Because if you feel like you need the terminology to describe what you're seeing, are you trying to describe the vid back to the vidder? Because they know that already. I know I keep pushing back to this point, but I feel like emotional connection and describing your feelings doesn't really need a technical terminology, and that's the thing that appeals to me most personally as a vidder. Tech observations, if they come, are just the icing, not the meat. (Mixed up my metaphors a bit there.)
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Post by franzeska on Dec 15, 2011 12:43:15 GMT -5
I know I keep pushing back to this point, but I feel like emotional connection and describing your feelings doesn't really need a technical terminology, and that's the thing that appeals to me most personally as a vidder. Tech observations, if they come, are just the icing, not the meat. (Mixed up my metaphors a bit there.) The delicious icing on your meat cupcake? (Wait... that doesn't sound quite right...) I feel like I see a lot of reactions to vids and also to visual art that treat them as these mystical creations that spring fully formed from the artist's brow. People are less wowed by the concept of producing text at all, so even intimidating text is less intimidating than other art forms. If viewers can't tell what the vidder actually did (and I think it's clear that many people can't--look at all of the clip theft where people are genuinely surprised anyone recognized the copied parts), it's hard to know how to describe the emotional reaction to the vid as opposed to the emotional reaction to the source or the ship or the character. And if you don't distinguish at all, you get those Youtube comments like "OMG I love them so much!", which I've seen more than one vidder complaining are kind of a let down since they're only about the source. |
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Post by winterjasmine on Dec 15, 2011 12:49:34 GMT -5
But you don't feel that way about fic, I take it? Why not? Is it because you are a writer yourself? Or do you think you'd still be able to write feedback for fic even if you're not a writer? No, I don't feel that way about fic, maybe because I feel more confident about writing than I do about vidding... It would be interesting to see how non-writers viewed giving feedback on fic, compared to non-vidders on vids... I guess we all know how to write feedback on text. I mean, we spend endless hours in school doing exactly that, interpret it and study it and write essays and tests on and about it. It's fairly easy to apply that to fanfiction because we know what we're looking for, or at least we know some of the terminology and basic structure of texts. Vids, on the other hand, are unchartered territory to most of us. We did watch some films at school, but we only discussed the content and dialogue. It wasn't until I took a film studies class at university that I learned to name the different camera angles and shots correctly. The first time I wrote a paper about an opening sequence of a film (it was North by Northwest) I felt exactly the same as today when I want to give concrit or plain feedback on vids. It's hard to translate the visuals into text, maybe because I never properly learned how to do it. Yup, this, exactly. But I think it kind of goes back to my point of, what are you trying to write feedback on? Because if you feel like you need the terminology to describe what you're seeing, are you trying to describe the vid back to the vidder? Because they know that already. I know I keep pushing back to this point, but I feel like emotional connection and describing your feelings doesn't really need a technical terminology, and that's the thing that appeals to me most personally as a vidder. Tech observations, if they come, are just the icing, not the meat. (Mixed up my metaphors a bit there.) This is a really good point - maybe there's a feeling that for feedback to be "good" it needs to include some kind of analysis of the technicalities of the vid, rather than just the emotion... perhaps because vidding is seen as more technical than writing? But also, describing your feelings about a vid is all well and good, but most people want to go further and explain why the vid makes them feel like that, and I guess that's where understanding the vidding process, and having a knowledge of the technical vocabulary of vidding is needed. Jaz |
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Post by voodoochild on Dec 15, 2011 19:41:08 GMT -5
This. Before I started vidding, it was a completely alien process to me. I knew it was extremely labor-intensive, required a lot of thought, and a strong connection to the source the person was vidding, but that was it. And when I feedbacked vids (Nicky, I remember some of yours, as well as people like sweetestdrain and tzikeh and laurasha and giandujakiss), I tried to convey some of that appreciation without actually understanding why I liked what I liked about the vid. I could watch a vid and fangirl the matching of lyrics to clips (because that's text-related, and I know how to critique text-centric sources), but there were always bits I liked (musicality/cutting to the beat, particularly excellent colorizations and effects) that I lacked the vocabulary to enjoy. All I could really say was "that was pretty!", and everyone knows how frustrating feedback that's limited to comments like that is.
There's definitely an aspect of this. I want the vidder to know that I "got" what they were trying for in their vid, and before I started vidding, it felt as if that meant speaking on their level, using their terminology. It's a bit like native-speaking slang, to a non-native speaker. You feel like an outsider because you're not sure if you're "getting it" or not. And while you can simply use your own words to speak about how the vid made you feel, it feels like your comments are just rehashing what others said, or aren't as intelligent/insightful as they could be.
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Post by winterjasmine on Dec 16, 2011 7:04:25 GMT -5
And while you can simply use your own words to speak about how the vid made you feel, it feels like your comments are just rehashing what others said, or aren't as intelligent/insightful as they could be. This? How I feel 90% of the time in fandom generally. There seems to be such a quest for creative originality, and so many intelligent, coherent people around, that most of the time I just feel kinda slow. I wish I had more time to process half of the insightful discussions that have taken place here alone, let alone everywhere else on the fannish interwebs. Sadly life just keeps barreling along, and here we are with one week to go before Christmas, the cleaning and washing still to do, the shopping not yet ordered, and a blown front headlight on the car. Life needs far to much attention for my liking, I'd much prefer to spend all day reading interesting, thought provoking discussions on musicality and narrative in vidding, and the gender balance of Arthur Ransome's Swallows and Amazons novels. Sadly it's not to be. Jaz |
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There's something about having the confidence to talk about something that as a new vidder you might not actually know a lot about. The times I've written a comment and then deleted it, because I don't think I'm adding anything to the conversation... trying to resist just that urge right now! 
