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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 6:18:44 GMT -5
littleheaven - Maybe you do that already, I don't know, but I kind of get the feeling that a lot of people are experiencing those moments of connection, but it's not expressed beyond "I liked this vid", which is appreciated because they took the time.... but maybe there's additional value in actually saying the words "this vid resonates with me on a deeper level, even though I don't know quite how to say it, but I just wanted to say that it did." I don't think it's necessary to dissect your feelings and give a reasoned argument for why you have them (indeed it sounds a bit counter-productive), but... I don't know. If someone felt a connection for one of my vids, I would really like to hear that they felt a connection. I had someone concrit a vid I'd posted, once, and while all the points were totally valid, and the commenter was absolutely right in their observation and I learned a valuable lesson, I would have appreciated my failings being pointed out to me privately, LOL. My feel of LJ vidding culture is that it's generally acceptable that public concrit is okay unless you specifically say it's not. Do you feel like you have to put a note on your vid posts saying "no concrit please"?
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Post by legoline on Nov 13, 2011 6:23:26 GMT -5
I don't think it's necessary to dissect your feelings and give a reasoned argument for why you have them (indeed it sounds a bit counter-productive), but... I don't know. If someone felt a connection for one of my vids, I would really like to hear that they felt a connection. *butts in* I just wanted to say that personally I think you just made an important point there. I, too, tend to not give more elaborate feedback because a lot of the time I can't put my reaction into words, but I can certainly say "This video resonated with me a lot even though I can't pinpoint why" and I'll try to do that from now on (unless I can actually be more specific, of course). |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 6:50:22 GMT -5
There's no such thing as butting in at the pub! ;D And, I'm really glad to hear that it's not just me. That's basically what I've been getting at from the beginning, I think. That it would be really appreciated if feedback better communicated your sense of emotional connection to the vid, even if you can't say why it's the case.
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Post by thuviaptarth on Nov 13, 2011 12:52:33 GMT -5
Every year I resolve to leave more and better feedback on vids, and every year I keep it for 0-6 weeks.
Invariably I have grand plans about leaving long detailed messages and then end up struggling to articulate even just my major emotional reaction or one particular thing that I like. I am not sure that the disconnect is just about the subjectivity of the narrative in vids versus text; music and visuals are literally interpreted in a different part of the brain than text, and the internal translation from one to the other takes effort.
I am also always afraid of freaking the vidder out by being too effusive and/or interpreting something very differently than they had intended -- I personally love seeing what other people bring to the things that I write, but I know it can be frustrating when you feel like you're being misread. I'm also really grateful for comments that just describe what's there, or what people think is there, because I worry about the gap between what I am trying to say and what I have actually managed to convey.
But I am totally okay with "I liked this" and AO3 kudos too, because pick-me-ups are better than silence.
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 13:31:20 GMT -5
music and visuals are literally interpreted in a different part of the brain than text, and the internal translation from one to the other takes effort. Ahh, that makes so much sense.  |
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Post by dragonchic on Nov 13, 2011 13:43:46 GMT -5
I could see how some people may not have problems with concrit per se but would prefer it to be private. Being criticized in plain view of others is never fun.  I don't mind concrit either way but I do feel like I can be a little more open/honest in both giving it and responding to it in private. That's just me though. I also don't tend to assume concrit is acceptable but that may be due to prior experience dealing with vidders who didn't want to hear anything remotely negative about their vids. I think there are some people who see posted vids as a finished product and don't think there's much value in having them critiqued. Because of that they may not anticipate having a posted vid critiqued and so wouldn't say anything about it in the vid post. My approach would probably be to leave a typical positive comment, and then end by mentioning that I also had some suggestions for improvement and asking if they'd be interested in hearing them. |
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eunice
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 116
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Post by eunice on Nov 13, 2011 14:04:36 GMT -5
On direct concrit to the vidder, I tend to think it should be more opt in than opt out. If they don't indicate somewhere in their post that they are open to it with an 'all kinds of feedback welcomed' or 'concrit appreciated' then erring on the side of caution and not hurting people's feelings, especially in public, is the way I'd go. I also don't think there's anything wrong, though, with contacting the vidder privately to say 'Hey, I like a lot of what you did and I have some suggestions if you're open to it' as long as you're cool with them saying 'no', because thus has formed the basis for a lot of really productive beta relationships.  At the same time I also think there needs to be room for critique in talking about vids as viewers, not for the benefit of the vidder necessarily but in terms of talking about what we like or don't like in vids or reccing a vid and discussing it. Which is an entirely different kind of conversation. And for me personally, I do like hearing if something didn't work for someone in one of my vids. I don't go back and change them after release, what's done is done. But hearing it allows me to assess it and either take it into consideration for future vids, or recognize that my aesthetic preference isn't going to match with certain viewers and come to terms with it as I go forward. |
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Post by littleheaven on Nov 13, 2011 16:07:24 GMT -5
My feel of LJ vidding culture is that it's generally acceptable that public concrit is okay unless you specifically say it's not. Do you feel like you have to put a note on your vid posts saying "no concrit please"? No, I'd never go as far as to not ask for it, because some of the most valuable vidding lessons I've ever learned came from concrit, and I always welcome an opportunity to improve. But on some level I still feel it is more polite to do it off-journal. Just like I'd never criticize a co-worker's work in front of the team, I'd do it in a meeting room. Midnight Lair used to have a concrit thread. I think that would be a good idea for this board, for those of us who like that kind of input. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 16:35:33 GMT -5
Midnight Lair used to have a concrit thread. I think that would be a good idea for this board, for those of us who like that kind of input. My personal issue with that is that effectively that means the current post-your-vid forum then implicitly becomes a place where concrit is out of bounds, which I'm not comfortable with. I don't want to have to put down a rule to the tone of "if you want concrit, you have to specifically go stand over there. If you're still here, then you must only say and expect nice things." I mean, I wouldn't criticise a co-worker outside of a meeting room either. But I'm not sure this is an analogous situation. If everyone is for separating out critical feedback into a separate board, that is cool with me. But I'm not sure where majority opinion swings on this. Maybe we need a poll? |
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Post by buffyann on Nov 13, 2011 16:51:10 GMT -5
My problem is concrit is that it can easily turn into "this is the vid I would have wanted you to make and my comments relate to how you should have done that" instead of "I like what you did but I just didn't manage to get into that specific thing or didn't get this parallel" or whatever.
It's really hard to accept concrit or give proper concrit because we all have our own filters and can't always be on the same wavelength to communicate properly between commenter and vidder.
My personnal take though is that it should be allowed and free, as long as it doesn't turn unrespectful. And then it's up to the vidder to take it with a proper grain of salt. Even if that can be hard...
Generally speaking, I just wish I could sit down with every vidder whose vid I want to comment on and just explain in person what I like and discuss it that way while making stupid gestures to explain my point. That certainely is something I love about VVC is to be able to do that. I do think even a "omg, this is awesome" comment is worth typing, but I do wish I could take more time sitting down and typing everything I love about a vid that I really adore and explain it to the vidder, but then there's always this fear I'm gonna get carried away in my own vision of the vid which might differ too much and can potentially offend/annoy the vidder. So balancing out what you wanna say is hard. And I find it easier to comment on people I know or have met, because of that and because I know what I can or cannot say.
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Post by dragonchic on Nov 13, 2011 17:50:22 GMT -5
I don't think a separate board or thread is needed, unless it's a "general" concrit thing (like comments on older vids or something about the vidder's work overall rather than a recently-posted vid). It's not that hard for vidders to state their concrit preferences in their post and I think people can catch onto posting norms in smaller forums pretty quickly.
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Post by legoline on Dec 5, 2011 2:10:44 GMT -5
I thought I'd just mention that now, whenever I watch and like a vid, I try to remember to always include a line about what I liked best or how the vid made me feel. Yay! |
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Post by franzeska on Dec 5, 2011 13:01:33 GMT -5
I don't think too much about online feedback. Vidding in the fandoms I do, I expect to receive zero comments. I'll get a couple from friends and a couple like "I love that character!", but that's it, and that's always going to be it. The ideal for me would be if my vids lured more people into my fandoms, so I treasure high hit counts. The absolute best comment I could ever get on a vid would be: "I watched the canon and wrote you this epic fic!"
I'm pretty lazy about going out and looking for vids because a lot of what's out there really is all about love of the source. If I don't share it, my criticism is going to mostly sound meanspirited, and the fact that the vid did or didn't work for me is not a good measure of its success. I prefer to beta or to review entire con vidshows or to comment on every Festivid because there's a more defined context for my reaction being relevant. (Of course 90% of my Festivids comments were "YAY A VID!". It just doesn't seem right to treat them with the same critical eye I'd apply to a con show or to my own vids.)
If I really like something, I'll just steal editing ideas from it for my next project and tell the person they inspired me.
I'm kind of torn about feedback on my own work. I always notice tons of flaws in my vids or things that I like but that I expect to be unpopular, and I'm curious which ones stand out to other people. On the other hand, I am a gigantic ham, and I hate getting comments like "You have talkyface in your vid!" or "That clip is 12 seconds long!" unless there's some actual analysis of why that choice didn't fit the music or clashed with the rest of the vid. What I really like is seeing people discussing my stuff amongst themselves; what people find notable enough to stick in a con report or to tell their friends is a way better guage of how a vid worked for them.
I'm happy to write feedback for things here though: It doesn't feel so much like I'm invading someone's happy, squee-filled personal space with critique.
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Post by voodoochild on Dec 5, 2011 19:56:59 GMT -5
Um, yes, what you've all said about the not-knowing how to respond to vids when one has been immersed in ficdom for years. That's exactly the problem I have when leaving feedback - I want to be supportive, but it's difficult to find the words for a detailed comment of exactly what I liked.
Thanks for saying it so much better than I could.
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 14, 2011 5:39:47 GMT -5
Um, yes, what you've all said about the not-knowing how to respond to vids when one has been immersed in ficdom for years. That's exactly the problem I have when leaving feedback - I want to be supportive, but it's difficult to find the words for a detailed comment of exactly what I liked. I'm confused because I'm not sure what exactly is the difference? I haven't been involved in ficdom for years, but to memory, I've never found it difficult to jump between commenting on fic and commenting on vids. I just give an overall description of my reaction, plus point out specific bits that I liked, whether it's a particularly cool turn of phrase or a great bit of musicality, whether it's a wonderful story concept or a cool vid idea. I mean, I'm definitely not doubting that "fic people" sometimes have trouble giving vid feedback, but I'm not sure specifically what the issue is? Is it a lack of technical vocabulary? But when you give feedback to fic, is technical vocabulary the thing you focus on, anyway? Or more on how the story was beautifully put together and made you feel? It doesn't seem to me that you need particularly technical knowledge of how it's written in order to comment on a fic. I'm just not sure why there's a distinction being drawn, and what is it about vids that makes people think they need to be savvy in tech or vidding vocab before they could make a meaningful comment? |
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I had someone concrit a vid I'd posted, once, and while all the points were totally valid, and the commenter was absolutely right in their observation and I learned a valuable lesson, I would have appreciated my failings being pointed out to me privately, LOL.
I don't mind concrit either way but I do feel like I can be a little more open/honest in both giving it and responding to it in private. That's just me though.
