jarrow
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Post by jarrow on Nov 12, 2011 11:54:44 GMT -5
Yes, sweetestdrain, this! You said what I was about to say. So, upon reading it, my first thought was, "well, someone already said it, so I don't have to [say anything]." But isn't part of the point that it's okay to chime in and say something as basic as, "yay, that thing!" So this is me saying, "yay, comment! That!"  |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 11:55:05 GMT -5
Sweetestdrain - I don't want to give off that impression either, even though I think I might be, and it's just really frustrating to trying to say what I mean in words (there's that notion again). I don't think what I'm advocating is something that's specifically technical - for me it's not at all about whether the commenter knows a lot about vidding/editing terminology or how it all comes together or narrative or structure of any of that, specifically. For me, it's more about how the vid made the viewer think and feel. And we all think something and feel things when we see a great piece of artwork, even if we don't have any technical background in the discipline, even if we don't know exactly what it is that made us think these thoughts and feel these feelings. And I just think it's a real shame if casual vidwatchers think feedback is all about the technical jargon type comments and not about how the vid connected with them, because to me, that's the far more resonant part of giving and reading feedback. I want to somehow enforce the idea that it's okay to just write a comment and talk about the concepts and feelings it generated in you, and not feeling as though you have to be constrained by using the right terminology to do that. As a vidder, I've certainly received in-depth feedback that made me really proud and vindicated, but more often on multifandom vids that had a social/political message/critique than on character- or show-driven vids. Maybe because that kind of vid makes the work and thought that goes into vidding more obvious to the casual viewer? I dunno. I have similar experiences. I think the obviousness of it forms a large part of that. But also something about the fact that vidding is a secondary activity predicated upon there being existing footage, about arranging them rather than creating them; whereas with fics, even though you're using existing characters and settings, you're still pulling something out of nothing with the words you conjure. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but maybe the lesser volume of feedback on the show/character-based vids is that it's perhaps harder to pin down exactly where the show/character ends and where the vid begins? Not sure if I'm making sense there, even to myself. winterjasmine - lulz, don't go back into lurker mode! I'm finding all this very interesting to learn!
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eunice
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Post by eunice on Nov 12, 2011 12:00:56 GMT -5
I'd rather have 10 "I liked it" comments than 2 "I liked your use of jumpcuts and internal motion" ones. Me too! I've heard so many people say they don't comment because they think they don't have the vocabulary or knowledge to do so, but I want to know if people are enjoying my vids. Detailed discussion of what I did there is nifty, but I have a hard time with words myself (hence why I vid) and I really don't want anyone to feel like I don't value just knowing they watched and got something out of my vid with an 'I liked it' And I also kind of like it when people see things that I didn't necessarily intend. Once I've finished a vid and released it into the wild, I think what it 'means' is as much a function of what the audience brings to the table as what I have. When those two things match up it's really cool, but I find it equally cool to see the different ways things are interpreted through different eyes. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 12:07:46 GMT -5
I agree that I would rather have 10 "I liked it comments" than 2 "I liked your use of jumpcuts and internal motion" ones. But I'm wondering if I'll be in the minority if I say that I would rather have 2 "I connected with this vid because it made me feel [x]" comments, than 10 "I liked it" comments?
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:10:46 GMT -5
... I think it's really dangerous to play into this notion that a lot of casual vidwatchers seem to have in which they think they aren't smart (or something) enough to leave a comment because they have nothing to say beyond "I liked that." Everyone knows how to talk about fic because we're all trained to react to narrative -- it was so cool when Tony Stark did that thing with the arc reactor! omg he and Steve got married and it was awesome! -- but with vids, narrative is by nature a little bit more subjective, and there seems to be this impression that you need to be really visually attuned and know a lot of vidding/editing terminology so you can leave a "good" comment. winterjasmine I agree  (No, seriously, I second everything you've said there.) I already mentioned this in obsessive24s "Loki" thread but a reason why I hesitate to give long, insightful comments is because I'm so new to this and I feel I don't have the "knowledge" to properly comment on narrative and technique. I get super self-conscious and terrified to step on the vidder's toes. This and this. Exactly! Urm, Yay vid! Jaz |
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 12, 2011 12:21:49 GMT -5
winterjasmine - lulz, don't go back into lurker mode! I'm finding all this very interesting to learn! Lol! Thanks It's like my automatic response to awesomeness, I swear. Also, seconding what jarrow said (*waves*), that thing where someone else has already said what you were going to say, so there's no point in posting... that's a strong feeling, related to vid feedback too. As evidenced from this thread though, there's nothing wrong with a 'yay vid' or 'yay comment' post if you haven't got anything else to say. Better than not saying anything at all :nods: Jaz |
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eunice
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 116
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Post by eunice on Nov 12, 2011 12:27:30 GMT -5
I would rather have 2 "I connected with this vid because it made me feel [x]" comments, than 10 "I liked it" comments? I dunno, though...I think most 'I liked it' comments are rarely just that, though. They usually include some kind of information about how it made the viewer feel like "That was so much fun!" or "That made me cry" or "Awwww" or whatever. Not particularly detailed or meaty, but a good indication of what kind of mood or feeling that was evoked, even if it's just by an emoticon used. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 12:32:33 GMT -5
I don't know if it's because you vid the Big Emotion Vids, Eunice!  I don't seem to get a lot of emotional-based short comments to my vids... maybe I should double check, but for me, it really does seem like most of the short comments on my vids come across as of a less emotional/connection/engagement nature. |
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jarrow
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Post by jarrow on Nov 12, 2011 12:32:51 GMT -5
But I'm wondering if I'll be in the minority if I say that I would rather have 2 "I connected with this vid because it made me feel [x]" comments, than 10 "I liked it" comments? Oh, rich, meaty comments are worth their weight in gold, absolutely. One of them can be worth ten comments of any other variety. (A comment can also gain value by who left it.) There is so much that goes into what makes comments valuable to us. And I think what's happening is that there IS this qualitative aspect, either intentionally or not -- just the nature of the beast. Sometimes we measure a vid's worth by how many comments it gets. Sometimes we measure by what kind of comments it gets. Sometimes we look for a certain person to respond, and we feel rejected if they don't. It depends on the vidder, it depends on the vid, it depends on the format the vid was posted in -- so much goes into it. And that's part of what can make it so complicated to talk about. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 12:38:57 GMT -5
Oh, rich, meaty comments are worth their weight in gold, absolutely. See, now, that word "meaty". What does it mean to you? Because I think maybe for a lot of people, they might think that in order for a comment to be "meaty", it has to be content-based, it has to say something about how the vid is structured, about how it's edited together. But for me, more and more I realise "meaty" isn't really any of those things. It's that sense of communication and connection. Of knowing that your vid touched a part of someone (and maybe in a naughty way, hee). And you really don't need to know any of the hows and wherefores to be able to say any of that, I think. |
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jarrow
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Post by jarrow on Nov 12, 2011 12:55:50 GMT -5
See, now, that word "meaty". What does it mean to you? I left it vague on purpose I don't want anyone to feel like the kind of comment they want to leave on my vid would be unwelcome or not valued. Because I do appreciate all feedback, you know? And I think it's important in these conversations to say that any feedback is certainly better than none at all and to leave the door open for people to speak their mind, in whatever way. That said, there are certainly comments I treasure forever and reread when I need a pick-me-up, but there is no common denominator, I don't think, that I could define. "Meaty," in this context meaning "having significant value, richness, and emotional impact for me," can take on a lot of different forms -- again, based on the vid, what is said, who said it, etc. |
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Post by suchheights on Nov 12, 2011 14:50:47 GMT -5
They usually include some kind of information about how it made the viewer feel like "That was so much fun!" or "That made me cry" or "Awwww" or whatever. Not particularly detailed or meaty, but a good indication of what kind of mood or feeling that was evoked, even if it's just by an emoticon used. Yes, totally. I'm lucky in that I get lots of comments like that too and I really appreciate them. Long, in-depth comments are completely wonderful but so are the half a dozen words letting me know it reminded them of something they loved on the show or made them squee over their favourite character and so on. |
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nos
Pub Regular
Posts: 95
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Post by nos on Nov 12, 2011 19:06:38 GMT -5
I am really bad about being articulate when I enjoy a video. I can't really break down the reasons why, cause there they are, ya know? All over the vid. I am strange. Also, what if the reasons I loved it are not what the vidder was trying to say? And like others have said, usually people have already talked about what I loved most  So my comments sometimes break down to 'vid, yay!' or 'omg that thing where you did that thing was amazing'. I will try and get better about this. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 12, 2011 19:24:02 GMT -5
Also, what if the reasons I loved it are not what the vidder was trying to say? Personally, I quite like it when someone comes up with an interesting, unintended interpretation. It's a wedge into a conversation, and conversations are always nice, even if you don't see the same thing from the same vid. So I really wouldn't mind if I got a comment like that. It segues into the question of whether it matters what the vidder was intending if what you took away from it was something different but no less impactful? Oh the one hand, I personally tend to vid to communicate a statement or a particular position, so I do feel like I've failed in some ways if that point just completely didn't come across to the viewer. That said, I'm aware that once the vid is out there, it's capable of being interpreted every which way and I can only affect that so much, even when I've communicated my statement to the best that I could. There's a point beyond which I as the vidder just can't control. |
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Post by littleheaven on Nov 13, 2011 1:14:41 GMT -5
I am total crap at feedback. I just can't verbalise my emotional reaction to a vid. On a clinical level, I will appreciate good technical editing, but I often don't understand why a vid resonates with me on a deeper level, so trying to express that to the vidder is impossible. Hence I just end up leaving a "me like!" comment and feeling like a total moron because I know there's more I want to say but I don't know what it is!
As a vidder, I really appreciate anyone taking the time to say they liked the vid, be it 3 words or 300, because for someone to have deliberately taken the time to comment, I must have achieved my goal on some level.
As far as constructive critical feedback... I never give it unless it's asked for, and only in public if the vidder has expressed that they're okay with that. I had someone concrit a vid I'd posted, once, and while all the points were totally valid, and the commenter was absolutely right in their observation and I learned a valuable lesson, I would have appreciated my failings being pointed out to me privately, LOL.
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(No, seriously, I second everything you've said there.)
I don't seem to get a lot of emotional-based short comments to my vids... maybe I should double check, but for me, it really does seem like most of the short comments on my vids come across as of a less emotional/connection/engagement nature.
