Music: Choosing It and Using It

[icepixie]

We've talked about specific aspects of music in other threads, but I love talking about it and thought a general thread might be fun. So: How do you choose music for a vid? Does the music or the vid idea come first? Do you have any go-to artists? Favorite musical genres? Do you tend to stick with one style of music or try all different kinds? What is it that draws you to a song--the lyrics, the mood, the rhythm, the instrumentation, something else? Do you like lyrics that tell stories, have recognizable characters, and/or have a lot of concrete details, or do you prefer lyrics that are more abstract?

How important is music when you're watching a vid? If you like the vid otherwise, but the song makes your ears bleed, will you keep watching it? Will a great song make you like an otherwise uninspiring vid?

[nos]

My biggest problem with music is that I am obsessed with lyrics. If the lyrics work I will want to Vid it; music be damned.

I really want to Vid The Crowing by Coheed and Cambria. The lyrics are amazing, and the music is almost lyrics itself. (For example, a point in the song where they are taking about erasing mistakes from the past, the guitar seems to rewind) But the problem there: not a lot of people get Coheed, Coheed songs tend to have lots of proper nouns, as the songs are a soundtrack for a sci fi story, and I haven't really decided the source for the Vid yet. It's the first song I have wanted to Vid without already knowing what it will be about. Would fit Spike well, but people are tired of Spike. The Doctor isn't dark enough (yet).

But yes, usually I choose songs to Vid purely on the lyrics. If the music is excellent as well, its a bonus. This is a failing of mine, because the music should be more important, as the music can evoke feelings in people who've never heard the song, and most people who watch won't be as lyrically obsessed as I am. I am always in awe of vidders who Vid instrumentals and pull it off, because it just doesn't work in my brain. Would love to know how most people choose their music though. I've seen a lot of people want to Vid a concept, and struggle to find a song to match, which is also an alien concept to me, cause the song and the idea happen basically at the same time for me. I want to evolve as a vidder! Teach me your ways!

*please forgive any auto correct weirdness, long post is long, and typed on my phone.

[valika]

Great thread!

Let's see it. Usually song comes first to me, than the idea and finally the desire to make a vid for that song. This could be a either a music with lyrics or an instrumental one. Sometimes I use the lyrics to tell a story with my vid, but this doesn't happen every time. Actually I find vidding for music without understandable lyrics is much easier, sometimes I feel myself bounded by the lyrics. But vidding for a Hungarian song - this is my mother tongue - is way easier, than for a song having English - or else - lyrics.

Nos, I'M always in awe, when I see videos, where the vidders can use the lyrics of the song so...kind of fluently to tell a story or show a character or raise feelings with their vid.

The music is very important for me, a good one can bring me a lot of inspiration. The question is, what kind of music is good for me to vid. I'M afraid, that is the question is cannot be answered properly. My taste is so eclectic, old-fashioned and weird, I think.

[icepixie]

Dec 16, 2011 15:17:52 GMT -5 nos said:

I've seen a lot of people want to Vid a concept, and struggle to find a song to match, which is also an alien concept to me, cause the song and the idea happen basically at the same time for me.

I work much the same way. The song always comes first for me. Sometimes I get the vid idea relatively soon after I first hear the song, and sometimes it's years later, but so far I've never had an idea and then looked for a song to match. The lyrics and music are, hmmm, about 60/40 in importance to me. Usually the lyrics will suggest a character/pairing/situation/story, but if the music doesn't match the mood of the idea the lyrics suggest, I won't vid it. I'm also more likely to actually work on a vid idea if there are a lot of tempo or dynamic changes in the music--the chorus gets really fast, or there's a swell of instrumentation, or whatever.

I also seem to have a thing for songs with well-defined, interesting, and varied piano or guitar lines, no matter what the fandom or tone of the vid I'm doing. I think one of the reasons my least favorite vid is my least favorite is because the instrumentation, while dense, is also quite repetitious, and it kind of fooled me into cutting very regularly. I didn't feel like there were natural spots to cut that weren't on the same two beats, and I wound up letting clips go on longer than they really should have just because sounded wrong to cut them earlier. (The lyrics were absolutely perfect, though, which is why I went ahead and made the vid. Plus it was one of my early ones, and I hadn't yet realized how important variation in the music is to me as a vidder.)

To answer some of my own questions: I feel very unadventurous with music choices. Every song I've vidded can pretty much be categorized as vaguely folky, sorta-indie singer/songwriter music, because that's primarily what I listen to. But given how much you have to listen to a song to vid it, both in the video editor and, at least for me, before vidding at all, I can't imagine vidding a song I didn't love. A song I really dislike will throw me out of watching a vid, too, even if it's the most magnificent vid in the history of ever. (Most metal, rap, and Nashville-style country-pop: I can't do it. I just can't.) Conversely, I'll watch a vid that isn't very accomplished to the end if I'm enjoying the song.

[obsessive24]

Back when I first started, I reckon I always had the song first, and the vid idea later. But more and more I've swung around the other way, and now I'd say as much as 80% - 90% of my vid ideas are an idea first, and then I try and find a song to match. I think it's because as I get more familiar with my own style of vidding narrative and structure, the more I know what I want to say before I know how I can say it. And to me the "what" is the idea itself whereas the "how" is tied up in the song choice. I have a cache of songs I'd liked and would like to use in a vid someday, and if I have a vid idea I would always visit that cache first to see if anything would fit; but very seldom these days I would hear a song and then form a vid idea out of it.

I always go for the tone of the music first. The song has to instinctively sound like the feel I'm going for, if that makes sense, otherwise it's a no-go zone. The expected tone of the vid is usually something I already have a good grasp of before I start looking for the song. Then I do a rudimentary check to make sure the lyrics aren't grossly inappropriate, but usually song lyrics are broad enough to serve. So, yeah, I'd lean toward more abstract lyrics.

I think I vid a variety of contemporary music styles, but the underlying common thread is that they always tend to have a very strong melody line. Certain styles of music (alternative, rock, pop, hip-hop/rap) appeal to me more than others, but I don't think there's anything that I really CAN'T do if I put my mind to it. Some of my auction requests in the past have been a bit different to what I'd normally choose musically. I don't think they gave rise to my best work, but I can usually find a way to work with what I've been given.

How important is music when you're watching a vid? If you like the vid otherwise, but the song makes your ears bleed, will you keep watching it?

\
I think if it's wonderfully put-together, I'd know that and admire it for what it is, but I'd never truly love it. But I also like to think that I'm open to most kinds of music, so it's not often that something would make my ears bleed.

Will a great song make you like an otherwise uninspiring vid?

I would prefer that it didn't, because I feel like I'm not being fair or - honest to myself, I guess? - if I like a vid only because I like the song. I'd prefer that I recognised the vidder's actual work and talent that went into the vid, rather than, say, just the luck of their choosing a song I happened to like. But in truth that probably happens more often than I care to admit. The vid wouldn't be horrible, because I'd recognise that it's horrible. But there's definitely been times when a vid is only mediocre but my mind tricks me into thinking it's AWESOME because of the song. I feel like I'm not operating with full reason and integrity in those circumstances, which I dislike.

[legoline]

It works both ways for me, I guess. Sometimes I hear a song and go, "This would be a perfect vid for fandom XY" and sometimes I feel I need to tell a certain story about a film or show and then I go looking for a song.

Joy is the first thing is the case.

If it's the second, it can take me aaaaaages to find a fitting song. I'm incredibly picky. The lyrics should fit, though I'm willing to be okay with them as long as they don't completely oppose the video I have in mind. After all, lyrics are open for interpretation ;D I'm more after the overall mood of the song. It has to absolutely fit the fandom (and story) I'm vidding for. (My fave example is still LithiumDoll's "Big City Life") I couldn't ever bend a song to fit a fandom or theme only because I love the song and need to vid it for something.

The song should, in some way, reflect the subject I'm vidding. But it also should be somewhat easy on the ears. There's lots of great experimental stuff out there, lots of amazing music, but it shouldn't be one of those songs that you have to listen to twice or even three times for it to grow on you. (I know that tastes differ but I try not to make it extra hard for the viewer ) It's hard to put it into words, really. It's really just my approach and sometimes the best results happen when you do the opposite and pick a song that is completely different from the tone of the show.

Uhm. I guess the song, fandom and I just have to click?

[amathela]

I've done it both ways - sometimes there's an idea I really want to vid and I have to search for a song that works, and sometimes a song will just scream out its own vid idea. I occasionally play a game in the car where whenever a song comes on, I try to decide what fandom it should be vidded to - it's random fun, and sometimes the answer is, "none," but it's actually yielded some solid ideas! The vid I'm looking forward to working on next is actually a similar thing - I heard the song and immediately knew what vid it should be, and after listening to it once I already had the full shape and outline of the vid. That happens very rarely, but it's amazing when it does.

(Also, tangentially, something I've noticed while playing that game: Almost every viddable song can be [hypothetically] vidded to Farscape. It's an extraordinarily viddable fandom - it's visually stunning, and eclectic enough that it can fit almost any genre.)

I tend to look at the overall tone and themes when choosing a song - I'm not a very literal vidder, so lyrics don't need to fit exactly as much as they need to be generally appropriate. And I'm always a fan of working with metaphor rather than literal meanings. I'm not generally a fan of vidding to songs with very specific narratives, but as always, there are exceptions - I adore sabaceanbabe's A Tale Of Temptation (BSG), which takes a specific narrative and makes it work for the fandom, which I guess I'd differentiate from trying to construct an AU narrative out of the fandom to fit the song.

I'm fairly broad in my musical tastes, so it's rare that I'd be put off a vid because of the song choice - and I've been exposed to plenty of songs (and even genres) I wouldn't otherwise have listened to because of vids I've watched. Though, admittedly, sometimes I will find myself enjoying a vid more or less depending in whether I love the song or don't really care for it. There's only really been one case I can remember where a song actually made me dislike a vid - I loved the fandom, adored the character, and it was a visually excellent vid, but - yeah, ears bleeding is probably a good way to put it. It's totally my issue, but I was disappointed that it made an otherwise excellent vid basically unwatchable for me.

[astarte]

I always had a vague vid idea first and then searched for a song that fitted with what I was trying to express. But this year my approach shifted, I now have generally a very specific idea that I want to express and so finding the perfect song, is really an experience. Xandra can attest to this. I searched over two months for my current The X Files Season 5 song and by search I mean hunted down. Listening methodically to my music library, seeking out artists that sounded like they could have that special something I wanted in their catalogue. And yet, it was serendipity, Xandra randomly remembered a song on some soundtrack and gave me the youtube-link and I clicked through their stuff. Voila. When I found it, everything clicked and this is the perhaps the upside to this whole process. (And adding twenty songs to my 'to vid or not to vid'-folder because they are obviously perfect for some other fandom and characters.)

Having an idea worked out, just waiting for that perfect match. I feel like I own the vid more, because I knew what I wanted to say, before I had the 'voice'. The tone and mood are most important for me, I feel like I can always bend the lyrics to my story and work out the specifics, while I vid. But the music sets the atmosphere and I rely hard on that. Nicky said it perfectly, if my instinct says yes to the ambiance and feel, I'm already halfway there.

And like amathela said, sometimes a song hits you square in the the face with how flawless it fits a character or arc and you have finished the whole vid in your head basically on your first listen. I love when that happens, it feels so effortless and these vids are frequently so much fun to make.

[franzeska]

I'm all over the place with music. My default taste is basically The Cheesier The Better with an emphasis on bands whose fame and hair reached their greatest heights in the 1980s.

At the same time, I have lots of ~feelings~ (mostly of rage) about music and what is considered "normal" and what is "an acquired taste" or whatever. I had a few albums in high school and college, but I didn't actually like music or understand why anyone would care about rock concerts until my mid-20s, so I feel like kind of a blank slate sometimes. When I vid, I alternate between deeply unoriginal choices picked from the soundtracks of Brat Pack films and conscious attempts to branch out.

Music I find funny like will frequently make me like a mediocre vid. I doubt it would make me rewatch, but I don't rewatch vids all that much unless I'm studying them or I find them hysterical, and then how objectively good I think the music is doesn't matter. It's far more likely that a rare fandom I love will make me like an atrocious vid than that music choice will. (Yes, I have clicked 'like' on every Miami Vice slideshow on Youtube; why do you ask?)

It's rare for music to ruin an otherwise great vid for me. The only times it happens are when I feel like the vidder is picking music they view as "neutral" (read "popular when the vidder and the vidder's friends were in college") for a source for which I feel it is wildly inappropriate instead of finding either contemporary music in an appropriate style or music from the same time period as the source. I don't think you need to use music that sounds like the soundtrack of the source, but I do feel it should either be stylistically or culturally linked to the source in some way or intentionally contrasting, not just incidentally clashing because the vidder didn't know any better. The more I love the source and the more the musical clash is specifically a generation gap between my generation and the vidder's, the more it bugs me. But some vidders make really outre music choices work perfectly, so... never say never, I guess?

I don't have go-to artists. I do have artists I'm looking for vid concepts for and vid concepts I'm looking for music for, but the two rarely match up. Whichever one I start with for a particular vid dictates the other.

Dec 16, 2011 15:17:52 GMT -5 nos said:

Would love to know how most people choose their music though. I've seen a lot of people want to Vid a concept, and struggle to find a song to match, which is also an alien concept to me, cause the song and the idea happen basically at the same time for me. I want to evolve as a vidder! Teach me your ways!

I always feel like I get ideas from songs, but I think the vast majority of my vids to date have been the opposite. Huh. Weird. I guess it's because I've been vidding in only a few fandoms, and if an idea I have for a song doesn't fit those, I've been saving it for the future.

Generally, I start with an intended audience, which dictates a vid concept in some way. I haven't been vidding for very long, and most of my vids so far have been destined for specific cons or for Festivids. I've also done a few one-episode vids that were essentially meta about how I read that episode.

So, for example, I was doing an episode recap for a weekly discussion on Me&Thee (a Starsky & Hutch list). As I inform the internet regularly, I am obsessed with film noir. I view S&H as one of the stepping stones from the post-noir era of the 60s/early 70s to the neo-noir revival in the 80s, and I chose to do the recap for an episode I think demonstrates this particularly clearly. How did I find my music? I typed "noir famous soundtrack jazz" into google and then looked what I found up on youtube until I found something with the right tempo, depressing tone, and length.

I also do a lot of youtube surfing, especially those videos people do with excerpts of... like... "greatest lesser known Motown artists of the 1980s" or whatever. If I see a vid with a song I love, I'll go look up the person's other albums or see who else their song writer has worked with. For one vid, I googled for lists of songs with lyrics about mental illness. Metafilter is especially good for finding other people's music searches based on lyrical content. Song Meanings is good too. For a Festivids treat, I googled the kinks the person mentioned until I found a song with lyrics referencing them. I often go to soundtracks for inspiration. If I'm looking for music for a vid of a bad action movie, I'll look at the soundtracks of similar movies that came out around the same time. I also make a lot of use of Wikipedia lists of what charted in various years, small musical genres, and things like weird time signatures.

Basically, when I look for music, I don't keep my ears open until I hear something good. I research.

Once I have a song, I'll translate the lyrics if it's not in English and look up what soundtracks (or what other soundtracks) it has appeared in. Sometimes I'll look up the artist to find out about their political leanings and if they have any particular cultural implications I don't want in my vid. I'll search on youtube and google and lj to see if there are other vids to that song. If I find the lyrics ambiguous, I'll do a google search to see if I can find people discussing them, and I'll watch the original video if there is one. I do have to like the song enough to listen to it a lot, but I end up getting Stockholmed by most music I listen to too much, so my primary concern is what kind of baggage the music has attached to it.

[elipie]

Dec 16, 2011 17:32:01 GMT -5 obsessive24 said:

I have a cache of songs I'd liked and would like to use in a vid someday, and if I have a vid idea I would always visit that cache first to see if anything would fit; but very seldom these days I would hear a song and then form a vid idea out of it.

I always go for the tone of the music first. The song has to instinctively sound like the feel I'm going for, if that makes sense, otherwise it's a no-go zone. The expected tone of the vid is usually something I already have a good grasp of before I start looking for the song. Then I do a rudimentary check to make sure the lyrics aren't grossly inappropriate, but usually song lyrics are broad enough to serve.

This is actually exactly how I usually vid. Whenever I'm listening to music, I'm always racking my brain to figure out which fandom would fit whatever song I'm listening to, and if I think it's worth exploring, I'll type the name of the song and the fandom into my phone so I can look up the lyrics and listen to the song a few more times when I get home. I'll also put a song on my list if I can't think of a fandom for it right away, but it sounds like it would be fun to vid to. That way, if I ever suddenly get an urge to vid for a new fandom and don't have any vid ideas, I can look at the list and see if any of those songs work. Needless to say, my list is... incredibly long, but it works for me!

[franzeska]

Dec 17, 2011 0:52:49 GMT -5 elipie said:

This is actually exactly how I usually vid. Whenever I'm listening to music, I'm always racking my brain to figure out which fandom would fit whatever song I'm listening to, and if I think it's worth exploring, I'll type the name of the song and the fandom into my phone so I can look up the lyrics and listen to the song a few more times when I get home.

Or you could come hang out on IRC and I will tell you what to vid make helpful suggestions.

[icepixie]

Dec 16, 2011 17:32:01 GMT -5 obsessive24 said:

And to me the "what" is the idea itself whereas the "how" is tied up in the song choice.

That's really interesting! For me, both the what and the how are rooted pretty heavily in the song. When I vid, I usually feel like I'm releasing the story hidden in the song via the video clips I choose, as Michelangelo claimed to be releasing the sculpture trapped in the block of marble. (Haha, because obviously I am totes the Michelangelo of vidding! Yeah, that's a terrible comparison, but it's the only thing I can think of.) The idea wouldn't exist without the song, for me.

I would prefer that it didn't, because I feel like I'm not being fair or - honest to myself, I guess? - if I like a vid only because I like the song. I'd prefer that I recognised the vidder's actual work and talent that went into the vid, rather than, say, just the luck of their choosing a song I happened to like.

I also feel like it's a little unfair/dishonest when I find myself doing that and wish I weren't doing it. On the other hand, song choice is super-important to me when I vid, so...it's like there's a grading rubric, and the vidder at least got some points for that? IDK.

On the general theme of abstract vs. concrete lyrics, because this fascinates me: I actually really like working with songs that tell stories. (Caveat: I've never vidded anything that has, like, named characters--well, except one offhand mention--but I've vidded a few songs that have a definite narrative structure.) Narrative is not my strong suit, so it's actually really helpful to have one right there in the lyrics I can follow. Of course, then I have to choose the fandom and characters wisely, because the story I want to tell with them (or that I have footage to tell with them) has to work with the narrative in the song. But I think you can get away with a pretty heavily metaphorical interpretation of most songs like this, as long as it matches in a couple key spots.

[nos]

This is actually exactly how I usually vid. Whenever I'm listening to music, I'm always racking my brain to figure out which fandom would fit whatever song I'm listening to, and if I think it's worth exploring, I'll type the name of the song and the fandom into my phone so I can look up the lyrics and listen to the song a few more times when I get home.


THIS. SO much this. Except for me, I will be enjoying a song, and then BOOM. Vid idea. Or I just starting seeing the video in my head (which is something I have done my WHOLE life, since I was a tiny wee one, and thought I was super weird before I found vidding) . Astronaut was a total vidsplosion moment, after I had sorta been like "Hm, I should make a River Song video." I didn't put another thought into it until Astronaut came up on random on my massive itunes shuffle, and BOOM. Vidsplosion.

The Crowing is the only video idea I have ever had that hasn't settled solidly. I even sorta started it as a Spike character study, but gave up after laying three clips.

youtu.be/uRGcMXAfVl8*

*seriously, this song yall. I know I might be the only vidder on earth that likes this band, but THIS SONG YALL.

It's breaking my brain while I am trying to start laying out Red Right Hand.

[mithborien]

Dec 16, 2011 17:32:01 GMT -5 obsessive24 said:

I always go for the tone of the music first. The song has to instinctively sound like the feel I'm going for, if that makes sense, otherwise it's a no-go zone.

I do this as well when I don't immediately have a song choice. I open iTunes and start somewhat randomly looking for songs. I will then click throughout the song every 30 secs, listening to a couple of seconds of music at a time. If the song doesn't feel right then I immediately discard it.

If the song does feel right, then I check the lyrics and hope they match!

[azertynin]

Dec 16, 2011 14:59:53 GMT -5 icepixie said:

How do you choose music for a vid? Does the music or the vid idea come first?

I'm listening musics and clips pop in my mind. So, the music comes first and gives me the idea. It's never the opposite way like : I want to vid this idea, which music will fit ? No.

When I was a teenager, before I have computer, I spent many hours to imagine ice skating choregraphies on musics I was listening. (I was a skater and I'm always a huge fan of ice skating). Tv shows and movies have replaced ice skating, and for me, editing fanvid is the same thing as choregraphies on the music.
At the beginning, I was just interested by how placing visuals and cuts on the music without telling something in particular. The first constructive advice I received from an experimented vidder was : your vid is well done but you don't say anything. You must say something.
Now, I try to tell something. It can be narrative or just bring the viewer in a particular atmosphere. I always try to have a thematic and structured vid.

What is it that draws you to a song--the lyrics, the mood, the rhythm, the instrumentation, something else? Do you like lyrics that tell stories, have recognizable characters, and/or have a lot of concrete details, or do you prefer lyrics that are more abstract?

Everything except the lyrics because usually I don't understand the lyrics. Sometimes the music gives me an idea but when I read and translate the lyrics, I realize the lyrics don't fit my idea at all and I give up. Well, happily, sometimes lyrics fit the idea.
That's the reason why I'm more comfortable with instrumental musics or abstract lyrics. Usually, I don't like to be tied by the lyrics. At the same time, I think doing fanvid by following the lyrics is more easy and can be very funny to do, but you are less free.

How important is music when you're watching a vid? If you like the vid otherwise, but the song makes your ears bleed, will you keep watching it? Will a great song make you like an otherwise uninspiring vid?

Not so long ago, I watched a fanvid on one of my favorite tv show and one of my favorite song. The vid was so bad I could barely watch it. The most important is vidding skills, not the song choice. As the opposite way, I watched recently a very well done vid on one of my favorite tv show with a music I couldn't stand. I left a nice comment to the vidder, telling her vid was great and well edited because it was true but I won't watch it again. When I like both vidding skills and music choice, I can't stop watching the vid again and again, downloading the best version as possible.