To post to YouTube or To Not post to YouTube

[obsessive24]

That is the question!

Who shares their vids on YouTube and who doesn't? Why or why not?

Some discussion points off the top of my head:

1. Audience/feedback issues due to different viewership culture (to LJ).

- Is it fair to say it's less fandom-rooted and more of a general viewership? Or maybe fairer to say it's less vidding-rooted and more of a specific show/fandom viewership?

- Certainly it's a larger potential audience, but perhaps on the flip side, there's more "context collapse"?

- To what extent is "reading deeper", narrative and meta in vids explored on YT vids generally, or is it predominantly about the editing/tech? How much - and in what depth - is vidding content/technique discussed via comments or other methods of communication? (Private messaging? Emailing?)


2. Tech issues. e.g. takedown, audio disabling.

- Can circumvent this to a certain extent using e.g. opening credits, slowing/speeding music by >5%. Worth doing it, too much hassle, or personal reasons for not wanting to do this?

- Anyone's personal experiences in fighting takedowns by citing Fair Use, etc?


3. Aesthetic differences?

- Is it fair to say "the YT aesthetic" generally advocates an effects-heavy approach with added colouring etc? How do YT vidders in general view vids that don't use effects at all?


I keep having to add "in general" because obviously no two YT vidders/vids are exactly the same, and I don't mean to make it sound like I think of all YT vids and vidders as one interchangeable entity. That said, I think overall there's a certain "YT vidding culture" - at least in how it comes across - that can probably be distinguished from "LJ vidding culture" in a number of ways on a general basis. Agree? Disagree?

Very keen to hear from both sides of the fence, especially from people whose primary hangout is YouTube - do you feel there's a supportive vidding community around you? Where/how did you find and belong to that community? Do you find the "YT aesthetic" (if you think there is one dominant aesthetic/way of approaching vidding) restrictive in any way?

Also, just for demographic purposes, I think it'd also be interesting if people included their ages and when/how they got into vidding in the first place. Only if you want to, of course.

[legoline]

I don't post to YT because I'm a bit of a control freak and the idea of having such a big potential viewership scares me, quite frankly. I know that my LJ vids could have the same broad viewership in theory, but it seems less likely as vids are posted to specific communities and LJs. Staying on LJ feels at least like I have more control over my vids. It's actually a big step for me I crossposted some of my videos to AO3.

Of course, there's also the issue with me not hanging out on YT much due to GEMA restrictions. A lot of videos on YT are blocked for German viewers due to the ongoing dispute over copyright issues, and I'm too lazy to constantly use a proxy.

[FitzPro]

I use youtube exclusively. I've never had a LJ account, so I don't really have any way to compare the two.

1) The feedback issue tends to be positive. You do, on occasion get those who leave negative responses. I have one subscriber who tells me what he doesn't like in every one of my videos. Then a few months ago, he sent me a vid request. That really confused me. You develop a sort of "following" though. You'll find that it's usually the same group of people commenting on your videos time after time. All of these people are part of the fandoms I subscribe to. Likewise, when a vidder I love posts something that's outside of my fandoms, I hesitate from watching (though if it's a few choice ones, I still will).

There is not much of a community aspect. At least not from what I've seen. However, I am a member of forums with several of the other vidders I subscribe to, so that helps. But that community isn't built through youtube.

2) Youtube sucks with the music. Ever since google took over, they flag everything. Fortunately now they don't disable all audio, they just like to itunes. But it still sucks. I've never tried to fight anything with the Fair Use Clause, but I know of people who have.

3) Youtube is full of newbies, those comfortable in their vidding, and pros. With such a diverse group of people, you can find an audience for every style. I've seen glowing comments left on just as many "no effects" videos as I have those full of them. I feel that a lot of youtube viewers look more for the storyline than the aesthetics.

I hope that answers all the questions.

[noiproksa]

I don't post to youtube, either, mostly because of the reasons legoline already mentioned.
In my mind youtube versus livejournal is the vidding equivalent to fanfiction.net versus livejournal with fanfictions, but maybe that's just me. Somehow, I'm just feeling more comfortable in the livejournal community and it seems to me that it's more personal - I definitely see youtube as less fandom-rooted, but then again I don't post there so maybe that's just an impression I've gotten from the outside that isn't true.
Though I also think it's a prejudice that there are "better" comments on livejournal than on youtube. I think comments on livejournal usually don't discuss content/technique, either. (And from what I can see, neither do comments on youtube, so I think there's not really a difference there.)

[dragonchic]

I feel it's much more a fandom-based rather than vidding-based audience, particularly since vids come up when you search for the source or specific characters/pairings. I used to have a bit of a following in that there were a few commenters that would consistently leave feedback but even that has tapered off as I've branched out from the action/superhero fandoms.

The copyright issue is a huge PITA. I wasn't able to get Monster up no matter how I tweaked the audio so I eventually gave up. Given that LJ is my primary distribution outlet and I also upload to vimeo, I don't put too much effort into getting things up on YT if it doesn't want to cooperate.

While I agree that there is a definite YT aesthetic that is very coloring and effects-heavy, I've never gotten grief about the lack of effects in my video. I haven't gotten many negative comments at all and most of those were about the song choice or even the subject matter. I *am* much more likely to get comments that have nothing to do with the vid, like "What song is this?" or "Where did you get the episodes?" or "Which episode is that clip from?" Or even, "Superman is cool but you know I think Goku would totally kick his ass," which then set off a huge comment war between a few random people.

[nos]

I post to YouTube, and I mostly get good reviews there. Popular songs of course get tons of hits over there. I was tos'd on Astronaut, blocked in all countries, for the song. I disputed with fair use and won, which was surprising to me.

[elipie]

I post to YouTube and Vimeo and then post both links to LJ for multiple reasons that I went through in a different thread few weeks ago. Basically, I think there are ups and downs to all of them:

1. YouTube gives you an incredible amount of viewership. When I first post my vids to LJ, I'll usually get a few hundred hits that came directly from LJ, and somewhere around 20-30 from YouTube searches. After a few days, though, the scales tip the other way. My favorite thing about YT is definitely that no matter how long ago you posted your vid, it will still pop up in searches for people, and therefore it will still get a pretty steady amount of hits for as long as you leave it up (or as long as the show stays popular-- I noticed a big spike in my Modern Family vid the same week the first episode of the season aired this year). That could be good or bad, depending on whether or not you want people to forget your vids or not, but it's one thing I really love about YT. On the negative side, like others have said, they are super annoying about blocking videos in other countries or removing the music track (and to be fair, I haven't seen much of the later lately). Which is why I cross-post to...

2. Vimeo-- The quality of the vid looks better on Vimeo, and I don't have to worry about them blocking my vids in other countries or taking them down completely. I crosspost to Vimeo solely because at least one person would always request I upload elsewhere because they couldn't watch it on YouTube, so I figured it'd just be more convenient for those people and to people who prefer watching on Vimeo if I gave both options. The negative side of Vimeo to me is that the only hits I get on Vimeo come from LJ, and again, the viewership on LJ dwindles quite a bit after about a week or so of the vid being posted, and that makes me sad.

As far as comments go, I agree with dragonchic that you're definitely more likely to get comments that are more about the fandom or music than the vid on YouTube, but other than that and the occasional flame (which I don't think I've ever actually gotten), the comments are pretty on par with LJ. I think it's worth mentioning that the comments you get can depend on what type of vid it is. For example, my shippy Modern Family vid with no plot mostly has comments about how cute Cam and Mitchell are, whereas the vids I've posted that have an actual story get more comments about how funny/heartbreaking it is. I got pretty much the same thing on LJ, just... let's be real, LJers have much better grammar.

[thedothatgirl]

I post some vids on YouTube, to begin with it was a case if you can't beat 'em (clip/vid thieves) then join 'em. I continued to do so, also in frustration, after reading in various fandom forums/boards the assumption that YouTube is the only place to find vids worthy of viewing.

99% of the feedback is positive fandom/general comments - I think there may be the odd reference that is more vidding related but overall it tends to be about the show, pairing or character. I really don't mind this at all, after all I started as a fan/viewer. However I do not like the thumbs up/down rating system and have on occasions disabled comments and ratings.

Pontential audience is enticing. YouTube vids are more likely to be embedded on popular blogs and before you know it you've got 10k views in a week and new people subscribing to your channel which is gratifiying. As I don't tend to make vids with complicated narrative or meta content, I don't feel I'm missing out on deeper analysis. I post all my vids to LJ so the opportunity for comment there still exists.

I've not had any take downs (yet and that's justed jinxed it) or audio disabling but lots of ad placements and blocking in Germany. I don't bother with trying to avoid this by credits and audio speeds - it's just not worth it as I stream vids elsewhere.

[eunice]

I tried for awhile. I like the idea of YouTube, but I got three vids in a row dinged on the song and I just don't have the patience to either attempt to trick the flags or to fight the takedowns. Once I'm finished with a vid, I just want to throw it up and be done.

So, I would use YouTube (or at the very least crosspost) if it didn't add a layer of worry/effort on my part.

[franzeska]

I get more comments on LJ (I don't mean LJ is more ~intellectual~; I mean I don't get comments on YT at all), and it's easier for me to upload to vimeo (faster upload, better for embedding), so I rarely bother with youtube. I don't like that tech-heavy aesthetic when it goes hand in hand with a size measuring contest over your superior skillz. That's what turned me off of AMVs years ago. Youtube has a little of that, but I've honestly seen a lot more straightforward shipper vids with long clips and sappy music than anything else.

I agree that you tend to see a ton of comments asking what the music is or general questions about the source. If it's some kind of AU/CR or a slash vid, you also tend to see people asking how much is canon and how much the vidder's skill.

Miami Vice, in particular, is kind of weird because a lot of what's posted there are sequences from the original show. I'm not sure commenters are that aware of which ones are vids and which are straight from the source. (Most fandoms have vids and fake trailers and clips of the source all up there, but most shows that "look like a music video" look like one rather than being indistinguishable from one.) MV fans also love to use Jan Hammer's score and not identify which piece they're using. (And not all of them are named and there are no lyrics to look them up by. Joy.) I don't know how common this is across fandoms, but there are also a ton of MV videos that are a canon scene with the music from the scene replacing the softer music+talking of the original--especially for pieces of score people really like that have never been released on an album. The whole 'don't vid a source to its own music' thing is not much in evidence, whether it's single scenes or vid vids. It's all about celebrating the source in a straightforward manner.

[obsessive24]

Thanks for all your responses, guys! I love the many perspectives.

Legoline - I get what you mean. Sometimes you look at the number of comments and it seems like maybe 10, 15 people have downloaded your vid, but if you look at the website hit stats, it tends to be much, much higher. I get freaked out by the thought of an apparent huge majority of silent viewers who've never said anything or made themselves known in any way. The internet can be creepy that way. ;D

Thanks for your input Fitz! I find the (lack of?) community aspect particularly fascinating, because I was never sure whether there was a tight vidding community that I just wasn't seeing from the outside, or if YT is a whole different kind of animal.

Dec 29, 2011 12:19:17 GMT -5 noiproksa said:

Though I also think it's a prejudice that there are "better" comments on livejournal than on youtube. I think comments on livejournal usually don't discuss content/technique, either.

Hmm, that's definitely interesting. For me personally I think my comments received/made on LJ lean toward content/technique, but that may well just be because most of my friends and a lot of commenters are vidders who are cognisant that they're commenting to discuss the vid as opposed to, I guess the fandom or the ship? So for me there's a marked difference, although I can appreciate it might not be the case for everybody on LJ.

Dec 29, 2011 12:29:28 GMT -5 dragonchic said:

Or even, "Superman is cool but you know I think Goku would totally kick his ass," which then set off a huge comment war between a few random people.

Lulz. That kind of comment would seriously tick me off. I don't even like LJ post/thread hijacking by friends, let alone by random people. I'm very much "take it somewhere else and stop invading my space." Which makes me think I'm really not suited for a YT audience...

nos - did you follow a template/instructions on disputing with Fair Use, or did you make up your own text from scratch?

Elipie - that's a really good point about YT vids never dying in terms of hit count the way they dwindle on LJ. I never thought about it that way. I'm seriously quite surprised to hear thoughts here that YT comments are on a par with LJ comments, content-wise. I'm starting to think that maybe I'm just spoiled in terms of the kind of LJ comments I get personally...

Dec 29, 2011 14:35:30 GMT -5 thedothatgirl said:

I continued to do so, also in frustration, after reading in various fandom forums/boards the assumption that YouTube is the only place to find vids worthy of viewing.

*nods* That's... yeah. It is what it is, but... yeah. (I'm not gonna allow myself to get into rant mode here, or I'll never stop.)
Although weirdly, where your frustrated reaction to this is to upload to YT, it kind of triggers the opposite reaction from me, as in "fuck you, I'll never upload to YT just to prove you wrong." Which is certainly nose-cutting-face-spiting territory if that's my only motivation, except it's not, so I'm more okay with it.

Eunice - I think ease of use/lack of worry is a huge barrier. Totally agree with once you're done with a vid, you just want to be done with it instead of constantly worrying about audio disabling and takedowns and fighting it if need be.

Franzeska - that's such an odd and interesting thing to read about Miami Vice in particular. Do you think a lot of that may come down to the age of the source, or is it really specific to this fandom that you don't get in other older fandoms?

[thedothatgirl]

*nods* That's... yeah. It is what it is, but... yeah. (I'm not gonna allow myself to get into rant mode here, or I'll never stop.)
Although weirdly, where your frustrated reaction to this is to upload to YT, it kind of triggers the opposite reaction from me, as in "fuck you, I'll never upload to YT just to prove you wrong." Which is certainly nose-cutting-face-spiting territory if that's my only motivation, except it's not, so I'm more okay with it.

I initially had the same reaction as you then just thought 'Well your vids won't get seen by the wider fandom audience until you do post something'. And slowly added some of the back catalogue and then new ones as and when.

I don't get huge amounts of feedback/comments on LJ so I'm supplementing those. Different sorts of response but both (mostly) valid.

[legoline]

Since noiproksa pointed out that YT feels like fanfiction.net for fanfics--what about AO3 then? Do any of you post your vids there?

I've posted a few but the response wasn't too great. (I posted to tiny fandoms, though, so that may have been why.)

[obsessive24]

I haven't gotten my head around how AO3 works yet. Do you post there and people can comment directly? Or does it link back to your LJ post or whatever?

If the former, I wouldn't do it just because I like to have everything in one post, i.e. my LJ post. I'd prefer that all comments directed there rather than scattered around the place. I'd probably dig more into the AO3 option if I were on the lookout for new audience, but as I'm not really in full-on marketing mode, so it's a lazy thing as much as anything else. ;D

[elipie]

obsessive24 -- From what I've seen, people usually embed there and yes, people can comment directly, though I don't see why you couldn't do the latter.

I post some of my vids to AO3, but usually only the fic trailers or my more popular ones. IMO, the audience on AO3 is very similar to the one on LJ, so I don't really see much of a point other than to have it searchable on a site other than LJ.