Vidding Action/Fight Scenes

[legoline]

I realised today that I find it very tricky to vid action scenes. For one, they're very fast (both in editing and in content) and almost instantly "gone" before you've even had a chance to have a proper look at them. But put them on slow-mo and chances are they'll look really cheesy. Plus, action scenes are usually a whole sequence of choreographed movements, so it seems difficult to just pick one of them for a vid. It feels like action scenes even more more than other scenes need to be put into their context.

What do you think is the best way is to approach them? Do you like using action scenes or do you tend to avoid them?

There's this one bit of fighting scenes in my The Eagle vid that I've been tweaking and poking at for days, and I just can't seem to get it right. So I was wondering if I'm the only one who finds these sequences difficult to put on a timeline

[icepixie]

I haven't vidded a lot of action sequences, but the few I have, I've enjoyed. Yeah, there is definitely frustration along the lines of, "Dammit, why isn't this shot four frames longer, it would make my life so much easier!" At the same time, I've gotten some great serendipitous moments out of sticking an action sequence on a timeline and seeing what happens. If I've mostly been cutting on the first beat of every measure, then sometimes a cut the source's editor made (or more often some internal motion in the clip) might show up on another beat, or it might highlight something an instrument I've been ignoring so far is doing. So for me they're worth the hassle.

[valika]

It depends on the type of video I'm editing and/or the type of show/movie I'M making a video for. I mean I rarely use action scenes e.g. in a romantic video but I use them in an action-y storytelling video naturally. Additionally I love to make videos for sci-fi shows/movies and this genre has really a lot of action.

I think the easiest way to use action scenes in a video is using them as they would be a type of dancing scenes - for me at least. Does it make any sense?

[obsessive24]

I like vidding action scenes, but agree they're hard to vid if the pacing of the song doesn't fit. I'd only try to put in action scenes for faster songs, or for songs with more dynamic choruses or whatever.

But when it works, it's so fun. Making punches and kicks land on beat was one of my pet favourite things to do when I started vidding, and still is to this day. ;D

I also agree with Valika I just view fighting choreography as a kind of dancing. I have a few years of martial arts experience, so the way bodies move really appeal to me, when the choreography is done right. Oh, here's a good example: Breathe, an anniversary vid for my husband that showcases the awesome Muay Thai skillz of Tony Jaa.

[suchheights]

I love vidding fight sequences I have to say. I agree with valika's point about approaching it like dancing, definitely - though for me it's been more the other way around as I've only seriously tried to vid dance scenes recently.

I think musicality can be quite important with action sequences, depending on the kind of vid that you're making. I try and find types of shot that match the music - so the long draw of a blade for a more continuous note, and quick clashes/punches for more staccato sections, that kind of thing. I also try and make the internal motion of different clips complement each other - so if character A is swinging to the right in one clip, I will see if I have anything else with a left --> right movement I can use afterwards.

[astarte]

I haven't done a true action vid in a damn long time and when I use a fight, it's mostly two or three scenes, that don't need more then timing the impact on beat. But what valika said about fight scenes being a dance is so true, especially if you have to skip forward in them. The movement of each fighter should continue - it's three-D regarding the motions and space the fight takes place, basically what suchheights said. What I felt helped was cutting between two fights scenes, because you can include the best bits of each fight and the audience will accept it as a mash-up and you have more liberties with the continuity.

[obsessive24]

Forgot to say dragonchic is the absolute master in action vidding. Check out her Break Teen Spirit in Four Minutes (Wanted), or The Last Firstborn (Appleseed). The way she addresses multiple layers of music, and lands multiple beats on the same clip, is just mind-blowing.

ETA: and how can I forget misteranderson - check out his Let It Rock (Iron Man) and The Burly Man (The Matrix trilogy)

[winterjasmine]

This is a great thread, legoline thanks for starting it

I have the same difficulties with using action scenes, specifically that often there are a lot of camera cuts, and I get hung-up on these cuts falling on beats. When it works though, it's the best. In my first Farscape vid, I had some great kicks and explosions, and some great moments of serendipity where, as others have said, the internal motion matches the beat, and that's great when it happens!

ETA: Thanks for the examples, obsessive24

Jaz

[obsessive24]

Dec 4, 2011 18:02:09 GMT -5 winterjasmine said:

specifically that often there are a lot of camera cuts, and I get hung-up on these cuts falling on beats.

When I first started vidding, I was obsessed with placing cuts on beats. But later I started seeing the merit in focussing more on internal motion landing on-beat, which often has a more organic feel to it, than trying to place cuts to the beat, which can feel a bit artificial sometimes (especially if you try to cut on very beat, as I did! ;D ). These days I try to make my cuts as invisible as possible. Often they still land on the beat just because that's where they naturally feel right, but for me, in action vidding it's much more important to have the visual motion to the beat, regardless of where the cuts are.

[rokikurama]

Just as a side note, it can sometimes be helpful to pull some of the fight scene sounds from the source if you want to emphasize something but the music is fighting you. This Watchmen vid (*major* spoiler for the movie and book--you have been warned)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRNLBAISU2g
has a really nice use of that about 50 seconds in.

[elipie]

Usually if a scene isn't quite matching the song the way I want it to, I'll speed it up or slow it down just a hair so it isn't really noticeable to the viewer, but it makes a world of difference to me. It either matches the rhythm better (like everyone else is saying, I also view fighting as choreography), or it gives me a few extra or a few less frames to work with.

[legoline]

[quote author=admin board=vidding thread=104 post=2324 time=1323040361 but for me, in action vidding it's much more important to have the visual motion to the beat, regardless of where the cuts are.
[/quote]

Well, d'oh. That makes so much sense. I will have to try it out for my vid ;D (I actually did the thing where I cut on every beat with this vid first, and then I rewatched it yesterday and thought, "No, this is giving me a headache", so I made a lot of the scenes longer)

I just feel like it'll be hard for the viewer to follow the fighting scenes because they're so quick and "wobbly".

[obsessive24]

Dec 5, 2011 1:42:47 GMT -5 legoline said:

I just feel like it'll be hard for the viewer to follow the fighting scenes because they're so quick and "wobbly".

Some fighting choreography is better than others, tis true. I personally think that if the camerawork is wobbly, it shows that the choreographer has something to hide. All the best fight scenes I can think of just has a stationary/smooth camera and lets the fighters get on with it. ;D

[littleheaven]

I really like fight/action sequences, ever since I accidentally landed a punch in the face right on the beat in one of my early vids, and went "oh, wow, that looked cool!" ;D I do struggle with being a bit metronomic - too many years of musical training makes me tend to cut on beats 1 and 3 a lot, and sometimes I realise all my clips are the same length. Lots of good strong internal motion means I can have longer clips, and make them interesting by timing movement to music, putting a punch or a kick where I normally would have placed a cut.

[winterjasmine]

Dec 4, 2011 18:12:41 GMT -5 obsessive24 said:

Dec 4, 2011 18:02:09 GMT -5 winterjasmine said:

specifically that often there are a lot of camera cuts, and I get hung-up on these cuts falling on beats.

When I first started vidding, I was obsessed with placing cuts on beats. But later I started seeing the merit in focussing more on internal motion landing on-beat, which often has a more organic feel to it, than trying to place cuts to the beat, which can feel a bit artificial sometimes (especially if you try to cut on very beat, as I did! ;D ). These days I try to make my cuts as invisible as possible. Often they still land on the beat just because that's where they naturally feel right, but for me, in action vidding it's much more important to have the visual motion to the beat, regardless of where the cuts are.

This is a great piece of advice. So much of what you read is 'cut to the beat, cut to the beat' that you feel you *have* to do that.

Dec 4, 2011 20:32:54 GMT -5 rokikurama said:

Just as a side note, it can sometimes be helpful to pull some of the fight scene sounds from the source if you want to emphasize something but the music is fighting you. This Watchmen vid (*major* spoiler for the movie and book--you have been warned)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRNLBAISU2g
has a really nice use of that about 50 seconds in.

That's awesome. What's the best way to do that? Do you rip the sound off and lay it down as a separate audio track, or do you just rip the clip with the audio on?

Jaz