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Post by winterjasmine on Dec 1, 2011 16:14:51 GMT -5
But, more relevantly, I thought editing songs was scary until I tried it. It turned out to be a lot easier than I'd imagined for the most standard type of edit where you either remove the last few repetitions of the chorus or the entire bridge and most of what follows it. I like playing with Audacity now, but editing in iMovie was more than sufficient for that type of chopping off the ending edit or joining two pieces together. (I have a song I'm working on a vid to where I had to shorten a musical bridge, but the whole thing builds in a way where I had to edit it like cutting all of the B's out of ABABABAB. Audacity is perfect for that.) I mean, no pressure, but if you are interested in editing songs some time, you're probably better at it than you think. I probably will give it a go at some point. Generally I've found that you tend to learn new techniques when the vid demands it of you. When I find the 'perfect' song that is just too long or too repetitive, then I'll probably end up giving song editing a go.  Jaz |
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Post by jackiek on Dec 1, 2011 16:31:33 GMT -5
I did a vid that involved quite a bit of song editing. I spent about three weeks panicking over how I would edit it, 10 minutes figuring out how the software worked (the interface is so similar to vidding software that it was nothing, really) and half an hour doing the actual edits.
If you are trying to do something really elaborate like Symphony of Science or DJ Earworm, or maybe using a song without a strong beat or lots of extended notes, it could be significantly more difficult but, song editing is one of those things that is usually much easily done than anyone thinks.
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Post by valika on Dec 2, 2011 6:07:48 GMT -5
I love to watch long vids, but I'm a little scared of making them. I feel that I can't make a video for a song being longer, than 5 minutes. At least, I convinced myself that I can't. I used my video editing software to cut the songs, when needed - this was the simplest way of it.
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Post by legoline on Dec 5, 2011 2:07:27 GMT -5
I used to use Audacity to edit songs but I've found out that SV works just as well. Or almost just as well ;D
I fear that I'm not a good enough vidder to keep the viewer interested for more than four minutes. I guess that sort of vid works best if you've got an actual narrative going on that's working towards something, and given that narrative is my weak point, I tend to stay away from longer vids.
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Post by katbyrd on Dec 6, 2011 17:53:08 GMT -5
I am terrible about chopping hunks out of songs. I do it all the time especially on repetitive stanzas. I think a 3 minute vid is good. But that being said, I did vid all 6:45 minutes of a Moody Blues song. It took me two years and many recuts to get it to where I was happy and it told the story I wanted to tell. I am a glutton for punishment.  |
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joyo
New to the Pub
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Post by joyo on Dec 9, 2011 5:39:11 GMT -5
I love long vids, on the condition that they *take* the time instead of fill it. There are definitely vids that are *too* long, bu ime that has less to do with their length and more to do with their intent and composition. It's all about what you want to say, and what amount of time it takes to say it. I've heard people in cons and on the net say things like "Well I just don't like long vids" or "any vid over X:30 is too long" and I always wonder if that's really true. Like, (the hypothetical) you happily sat through 2 seasons of the Wire in one weekend but you're convinced that, automatically, you won't get on with 9 mins of continuous vid under any circumstances? I have an absolutely dreadful attention span, but both the example absolutedestiny links and sweetestdrain's Terminator universe vid Land held it just fine. My own "longvid" idea is for all (or at least most) of the Miyazaki canon for a song that lasts for 11 mins. I'd probably cut it down to 8  I can see the structure very clearly in my head, the story is clear, the footage *definitely* supports it. It's on the "high concept to-do when I get brave" list. "when I get brave" tbd |
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Post by franzeska on Dec 9, 2011 13:23:24 GMT -5
I've heard people in cons and on the net say things like "Well I just don't like long vids" or "any vid over X:30 is too long" and I always wonder if that's really true. Like, (the hypothetical) you happily sat through 2 seasons of the Wire in one weekend but you're convinced that, automatically, you won't get on with 9 mins of continuous vid under any circumstances? Ha ha ha. That's a good point. My suspicion is that what that usually means is that the person has been forced to sit through a few too many vids for fandoms they weren't in that weren't accessible enough. That's my big fear with long vids at cons: they need to play well to a big, diverse audience, not just the three people who share my favorite minor character or the person who suggested the song. The more of people's time you're asking for, the more worth their while you need to make it. But when I see a really good vid that uses its time appropriately, I can't tell how long it is without looking, even at home. At a con, I only know if it was "too long", whether that was two minutes or ten. |
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Post by legoline on Dec 10, 2011 2:15:59 GMT -5
My suspicion is that what that usually means is that the person has been forced to sit through a few too many vids for fandoms they weren't in that weren't accessible enough. That's my big fear with long vids at cons: they need to play well to a big, diverse audience, not just the three people who share my favorite minor character or the person who suggested the song. The more of people's time you're asking for, the more worth their while you need to make it. I would guess that it's probably best to offer a multifandom vid then, if you want to show a long vid at a con? |
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Post by legoline on Jan 10, 2012 7:19:59 GMT -5
I realised the other day that all my Festivids are between 2:50 and 3:30 minutes long--I think three of them barely make the 3 minute mark. The vids before that were all around 2:30 to 3:30 minutes, too.
Now I'm looking and poking at some other possible projects and the songs all seem incredibly long to me.
I'm tempted to vid Early Edition to "Superman Song" by the Crash Test Dummies. It's 4:29, so not all that long, really, but it's a good minute longer than my recent vids and it's a very slow song and right now, it seems very daunting.
The songs I have in mind for Doctor Who are all around four to five minutes too, same goes for my FNL vid. That's very long for me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is--what is a "long" vid? How do we define it? For me, filling four or five minutes seems almost impossible, but I know that it's not an uncommon length. Is there a good way to approach them? And does practise really do make perfect? ;D
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Post by obsessive24 on Jan 10, 2012 7:48:08 GMT -5
My personal benchmark is that anything less than 3:30 is short and anything more than 4:30 is long. But that's altogether a personal assessment.
While I think structurally an intentionally long vid might differ from a short vid, I don't think there necessarily has to be a difference in approach unless your approach to short vids has always just been "throw random clips on timeline". Long vids allow you the liberty of more in-depth probing into character/emotion/whatever and perhaps a more complex structure or story, but I think that means any deficiencies in structure, or failing to structure at all, would become extra obvious in a 5+ min vid that may not have been that obvious in a 2 minute vid. I think pure squee and technical shiny can carry a vid for 2 minutes, but personally I'm doubtful whether that and nothing else can carry a vid for 5+ minutes. There has to be some sort of narrative/emotional thread to follow, IMO.
Not sure about practice making perfect as it relates to "and gradually I got better at making long vids". I suppose it would, but from my perspective, the more immediate concern would be being determined enough to keep yourself going and fill up the daunting timeline, instead of running out of steam halfway through and giving up.
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Post by dragonchic on Jan 10, 2012 12:05:30 GMT -5
When I first started vidding I was all about fandom squee and saw ~2:45 as the perfect length. Now I aim for around 3:30, although exact length obviously depends on the structure of the song and what I need the vid concept merits. The 4:00 mark is still a mental block of some sort - can't remember the last time I made a vid longer than that (if ever). That's not to say I see other people's vids that are over 4:00 as too long but for some reason it still codes as too long for me to do myself.
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Post by obsessive24 on Jan 10, 2012 14:01:25 GMT -5
The 4:00 mark is still a mental block of some sort - can't remember the last time I made a vid longer than that (if ever). That's not to say I see other people's vids that are over 4:00 as too long but for some reason it still codes as too long for me to do myself. Do you think the mental barrier comes from a "how do I structure a vid this long" place, or "how do I fill up so much timeline" place, or some other place? I'm aware it could just be (d) all of the above but wondering if there's anything specific for you. ;D |
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Post by franzeska on Jan 10, 2012 17:31:08 GMT -5
I guess what I'm trying to say is--what is a "long" vid? How do we define it? For me, filling four or five minutes seems almost impossible, but I know that it's not an uncommon length. Is there a good way to approach them? And does practise really do make perfect? ;D I agree with everybody else's approximate time cutoffs. Somewhere between 3:30 and 4:00-4:30 there's a change in what the original song is like (barring those songs with a full minute of boring chorus repetition at the end). Vidding long instrumentals and songs that don't resemble standard rock/pop and rock/pop that has a very different structure from the typical three minute-ish radio single requires... well, ok... invites a different vid structure. A lot of the long vids I've thought worked better have a very distinct structure. Either they're divided into several sections with different themes, or they retell a long and complicated piece of canon plot that required all that time to cover. Usually, music that is itself interesting for 4+ minutes starts to have some sort of structure beyond a couple of verses and a bridge. I think the "best" way to approach a longer vid would really depend on what music you've picked. But... I don't know... If the song has multiple sections musically, I might try making section one correspond to season 1 of a show, section two to season 2, etc. (Or each section is a different episode/character/relationship, depending on what the vid is about.) |
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Post by obsessive24 on Jan 10, 2012 17:42:15 GMT -5
The point about "sectioning off" is a good one. I usually think of vids in terms of that (natural segments in the flow), regardless of whether the song is long or short.
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Post by dragonchic on Jan 10, 2012 19:25:49 GMT -5
The 4:00 mark is still a mental block of some sort - can't remember the last time I made a vid longer than that (if ever). That's not to say I see other people's vids that are over 4:00 as too long but for some reason it still codes as too long for me to do myself. Do you think the mental barrier comes from a "how do I structure a vid this long" place, or "how do I fill up so much timeline" place, or some other place? I'm aware it could just be (d) all of the above but wondering if there's anything specific for you. ;D I think it's a knee-jerk reaction to seeing how much timeline has to be filled up more than anything else. But I also had the opportunity to get fairly long with one of my Festivids and still forced myself to cut it down. I could've easily made the vid that long but I felt doing so would have been indulgent, for lack of a better word. With that I think it's mostly dependent on the content - some concepts justify (and indeed require) long vids, but with others it's more a matter of could vs. should. I also wonder if the fact that I often work with movies (one-shots, or at most, a trilogy) has anything to do with it. With limited source I think it's less often you can do the kinds of really complex narratives that merit longer vids, at least compared to multi-season TV series. |
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I can see the structure very clearly in my head, the story is clear, the footage *definitely* supports it. It's on the "high concept to-do when I get brave" list. 
