eunice
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Post by eunice on Nov 22, 2011 22:18:13 GMT -5
Streaming: vimeo.com/32548160 (password: avisynth) Download: fan-eunice.com/dvdavs.aviSecond time out covers using DGIndex to create an .avs file for source ripped from a DVD. Identifying whether source is interlaced or progressive, and how to deinterlace if it is the former. AMVapp which contains all the stuff I've been using in these is hereAnd since I briefly touch on aspect ratio with the standard 720x480 that dvd files come in...which is wrong and makes the baby vidder cry, a link to jarrow's in depth explanation of how aspect ratio works. If you just want a quick and dirty explanation, the summary handout has a chart. I was a wee bit tired when I did this, so if I ended up not making sense in parts, will be glad to clarify!
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 24, 2011 17:02:06 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this, eunice! It's as detailed and informative as the last one. I am confused why you are doing the honor pulldown flags/force film in DGIndex, and then using TomsMoComp(1,5,1)? Initially I thought you were just de-interlacing in DGIndex and I was thinking how much more elegant it was than using TomsMoComp(1,5,1), but then you did that as well... so what was the point of the first step? I also didn't know you had to do anything with progressive source at all... what is force film? (I suspect I might have developed some rather different processes because I usually use PAL DVDs, which seem to be an entirely different kettle of fish to NTSC.) I'd always wondered what would happen if you skip DGIndex and instead just created an avs file with mpeg2Source(). Would that work? I'm guessing not, since why aren't we doing it already if we could, but I don't really get what indexing does.
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Post by astarte on Nov 24, 2011 18:07:43 GMT -5
I'm just jumping in, about the Honor Pulldown Flags. There are some sources that jump interlacing fields top/buttom, this will make sure that your interlacing is correctly indexed. You still have to deinterlace it in Avisynth, because DGIndex as the name suggested just indexes. So the first step is all about the finer points of interlacing, the second step is the actual deinterlacing process. Forced Film is similiar to Honor Pull Down Flag in that it tells DGIndex how to handle the source. The indexing is all about frame accuracy and telling Avisynth how to handle the source. It's about access to the vob-files for your editing program. For example if you use .mkv they have different framerates and stuff in the files themselves, so you need an index to tell avisynth how to approach each frame.
I would say we have less problems with PAL DVDs and interlacing. Also with the actual framerate being a round 25, instead of ,970030 or whatever. But absolutedestiny said something to you about how we should change the framerate back to the original, because PAL is slightly slowed down, Nicky?
Oh and thank you, eunice , for doing this, as always fascinating. I didn't know you could add several vob files in DGIndex. I always combine them later.
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eunice
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Post by eunice on Nov 25, 2011 10:16:29 GMT -5
obsessive24 -- I'm just gonna point up to astarte's comment and say 'what she said' Indexing just creates an accurate map for avisynth and for Premiere to follow. I think if you just try and yank the .vobs in unindexed it's much more likely to confuse Premiere and lead to jumpy/inaccurate scrubbing and crashes. Honor flags/forced film just tells it what kind of map to create, and what frame rate to use (ntsc interlaced is 29.97 and film is 23.whatever that number is)
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 25, 2011 16:30:45 GMT -5
Okay, that makes sense now. Thank you both! astarte - he did, although this was in the context of me asking a specific question, not necessarily that you have to do it every time. I noticed that my vids always play jerkily at cons because I usually have to force the DVD files to convert from 25fps to 29.97fps. And absolutedestiny said in those cases I should convert the source to 23.976fps first, edit in that, then when it comes to DVD encoding, do inverse-telecine or 3:2 pulldown or whatever it is that lets you get it smoothly to 29.97fps. The principle is that film is always shot in 23.976FILM anyway, and that PAL encodes just slightly speed them up to 25fps. So converting the source to 23.976 is just taking it to the original framerate. Which makes sense, but since I don't source using avisynth anymore, I haven't had much chance to play around with it yet.
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Post by astarte on Nov 25, 2011 16:44:10 GMT -5
Heh. eunice's map analogy is perfect - I just flailed around mentally going, but it is a index - a index does what a index does - it indexes things - we need the index, it's the order of things. Don't question it. *laughs*
Yeah, I remember that it was in that context, I was just a bit surprised, how he approached that problem. Because I thought that you could convert vids afterwards in Avisynth without much hassle and still have them synched perfectly to the audio. The more you learn.
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 25, 2011 17:41:19 GMT -5
Well, it's not really audio syncing that was the problem, just the fact that the vid would play jerky because I was forcing them to be 29.97 when they were 25fps. But out of interest, how would you do it in avisynth? Do you find that your vids play smoothly when you see them at a con screen? (Assuming you edit primarily in 25fps, which I assume you do...)
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Post by astarte on Nov 25, 2011 19:51:05 GMT -5
I've never been to a con, so to be honest, I just always assumed that when the Llama output looked good and smooth on my laptop screen, it would lead to a good con screen result. Actually trying this in avisynth with my original final encodes (The huge-ass ones) leads me to believe that this is a lot harder than I thought it would be. I tried several things and you're right, the results are so far from perfect, I won't even bother with script examples.
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Post by legoline on Dec 1, 2011 10:47:05 GMT -5
I've been watching your first tutorial and Anysinth begins to look less scary, but I still feel like an utter moron...because. Okay. I have an Avysinth file (in theory, haven't tried it out yet) and...then what? Can I just put it into Premiere/Sony Vegas? Do these programs recognise that file format? I once read something about having to change back the file to "avi"?
(Also, I've been reading all the comments here and it feels like you're all speaking Klingon. What are you talking about? I might never know...)
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 1, 2011 11:00:11 GMT -5
Legoline - if you download/install the AMVapp, then you can load the .avs directly into Premiere. It's more difficult for Vegas, depending on which version you're using. If you're using 9 or below, you can follow this tutorial (start about 2/3 down the page, under the"frameserving" heading) which involves extra steps but should theroetically end up with you able to import .avs files into Vegas. If you have version 10 or above in 64-bit, I don't think that's possible, but would be very glad to be proved wrong. The alternative is of course not to use .avs as source but to use it in post-production, the way I did it in my progress report with Iron, but that's a bit more limiting, especially if your goal with using avisynth was to clean up the source for editing.
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Post by legoline on Dec 1, 2011 11:07:18 GMT -5
Ah, I'm using version 10, so I think that just killed the whole thing for me. I read your latest post in your Iron thread and again, Klingon. (One of these days...) Anyways, thank you for clearing this up. I guess it'll take a while until I know all the technical terms and the like. But, before I forget, thank you so much eunice for doing these screencasts. They're so easy that even I can follow them
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 1, 2011 11:15:42 GMT -5
I'm sure it'll start making sense as soon as you physically play with it. It's hard to sort through all this stuff in your head theoretically, but in practice it's all pretty intuitive. That said, I think if you're in Vegas, there's a lot less of a need of avisynth. Premiere is a lot more finnicky about things like interlacing and framerate which are best solved with avisynth, whereas Vegas would fix a lot of that automatically for you without you even noticing. If you're keen to stick with Vegas, this isn't necessarily stuff that you have to learn. Just be grateful you never have to experience the pain of "WHY ARE THERE INTERLACING LINES ALL OVER MY VID".
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eunice
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Post by eunice on Dec 1, 2011 11:20:47 GMT -5
legoline - I don't know about Vegas, but with Premiere, yes, as long as you've installed the avisynth plug in for Premiere that comes with the AMVapp. You just import the .avs file and it shows up as one long video containing all the source you put into the script. No need to change the extension at all. As for the coding gobbledygook, believe me when I say you don't really have to understand it. I don't. For real, I really don't. All you need to know is which things to type to change what and that starts to make more sense as you apply it to different situations. Almost all of it boils down to knocking all your source into the proper aspect ratio and frame rate before you start editing with it. The hard part is figuring out what that aspect ratio and frame rate should be (and if you need to deinterlace), but actually plugging it all into avisynth is just memorizing about four lines of code. And really the biggest advantage of avisynth for me is being able to have all my source in Premiere at one time without taking up any hard drive space at all to convert clips. Edited 'cause Nicky got here while I was still typing, didn't mean to repeat stuff
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Post by legoline on Dec 1, 2011 11:34:01 GMT -5
@obsessive24 It probably would ;D But I guess since I'm using Vegas and am actually quite happy with it, I have no real use for Avisynth...I guess? I do all my deinterlacing with VirtualDubMod whilst clipping. euniceThat sounds really nifty. It's almost a shame I'm using Vegas but I'm finally beginning to understand the different features and gadgets of SV and I'm reluctant to switch to Premiere. That said, I watched your first Screencast going, "Four lines? THAT'S IT?" ;D
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eunice
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Post by eunice on Dec 1, 2011 11:45:25 GMT -5
FOUR LINES. I nearly cried when I saw it in action for the first time. I was working in Final Cut on a Mac for years and years, where you also need to convert everything before importing it. There are things I miss about FCP (and more that I miss about my Mac) but that is not one of them, OMG.
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