Vidding Chronologically? Yes? No?

[legoline]

Hi there,

so I'm currently clipping my source material for my Festivid assignement and in my head, I'm already considering which scenes to use for what bits in the song.

And it got me thinking--do you vid chronologically? Or do you just place the clips in the time line whenever you've found a great spot for them and then just fill up the rest?

My prior vids have all been vidded chronologically, with me either making physical or mental notes of what clips to use where, but since yesterday and whilst observing discussions here it dawned on me, I could, you know--just put stuff at minute 1:00, and then again at 2:45 first, and just fill up the rest, so to speak. (This forum, it's working wonders)

Just out of curiousity, how do you go about these things? I know that with writing some people write chronologically (me, for example, which is why I guess I just tackled vidding the same way) and others just write random scenes and connect them later, so I'm curious if the same applies for vidding?

[suchheights]

I tend to vid chronologically if I have the vid relatively clear in my mind already and know what I'm doing. If I have sections that are a bit fuzzy in my head, though, I will skip over to the next part where I know what I'm doing.

I picked up one really interesting idea from giandujakiss about this. She says she tends to vid the last section first to make sure that she uses all the best clips in the climax and doesn't blow them all in the beginning. That's definitely a problem I can have, so I've tried that out a few times too and that's been helpful.

[legoline]

Nov 13, 2011 5:30:27 GMT -5 suchheights said:

I picked up one really interesting idea from giandujakiss about this. She says she tends to vid the last section first to make sure that she uses all the best clips in the climax and doesn't blow them all in the beginning. That's definitely a problem I can have, so I've tried that out a few times too and that's been helpful.

Oooooooh. That's a really great idea. It's definitely something I struggle with all the time--I'll have a vid that I really like and then about three quarters through the video I'll realise that I have only leftovers for the vid, wheras the ending should really get the most powerful scenes. I've been trying to not use all the good scenes and save some for the rest, but even so, that tended to be tedious. Editing the ending first is a really brilliant idea. I think I'll try that one.

[obsessive24]

Nov 13, 2011 5:30:27 GMT -5 suchheights said:

I tend to vid chronologically if I have the vid relatively clear in my mind already and know what I'm doing. If I have sections that are a bit fuzzy in my head, though, I will skip over to the next part where I know what I'm doing.

That's basically my approach as well. When I first start the project, I'll slam down the specific clips that I see in my head that sort of form the cornerstones of the vid - which could be anywhere - then I start from the beginning.

I usually have a pretty detailed plan in my head before I start editing, so I personally don't find it necessary to vid the ending first. But I know a lot of people find that helpful.

For a lot of my vids, I know exactly what I'm doing for the verses, so these get filled up first. The choruses tend to be harder for me because they're usually louder and faster, and therefore need more motion and cutting, so I tend to balk at those until I absolutely have to do them.

[amnisias]

My instinct is to vid chronologically, because I find it more intuitive, since what works at spot x depends on clip w and y as well as the music. I definitly need to do the intro first, because it's setting the mood and scene, and I've sometimes been ambushed by my muse at that stage and ended up with an intro that doesn't fit the vid I had in my head. I also find it a bit fiddely to vid into 'gaps' because I always run into trouble because the clip(s) I want to place there turn out to be too long or short.

I do make exceptions for 'happy accidents' (see here vidpub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=vidding&action=display&thread=42) or bits of the vid that are rather random (e.g. intrumental bit where I know I'm just going to put tons of action stuff - this was before I dared to try my hand at music editing ).

Following above discussion I am really intrigued with the idea to do the end fairly early on, I might be tempted to 'bookend' my vid, e.g. do beginning and end first, so that I know where the journey starts and finishes, and then complete the middle bit.

[mithborien]

It really depends on how I have planned the vid.

For example, some vids I write out a plan that goes lyrics by lyrics, clip by clip and when I start vidding I am generally only laying out pre-planned clips and seeing if they work. So in that case, I vid from start to finish.

In other vids, I may not have such a complete plan to begin with so I generally just vid in any which way. For example, in the SPN vid I am currently working on where the theme (at the most basic, shallow level) is of the boys getting hurt, I had a basic plan in mind of what kind of clips I wanted where (ie. increasing levels of hurt as the vid progresses) but I didn't have specific clips referenced to begin with. I just went through episode by episode, took the clips I wanted and placed them approximately on the timeline wherever I wanted them. The end result is a vid with far too many clips, which I now have to refine but I have all the clips I want to work with in their general places.

So I guess it really depends how well my initial plan is. If it is very thought out I vid from start to finish because I all ready have the clips laid out on paper. If I don't have a plan, then I vid randomly depending on which part of the source I am working with.

[eunice]

I pretty much never vid chronologically. My brain is weird or something because a lot of times I have no idea what comes before if I don't know what comes after first.

I don't storyboard before I start, so that probably has a lot to do with it. Basically I fling stuff that I think will feel right at different sections of the song until a structure starts to emerge. Once it does and I have a pretty good idea of what the song means for the vid instead of just a vague 'it's about this' I start going through source again with that focus in mind.

At that point I'm usually jumping back and forth between different sections working on whatever I have the best ideas for at the time, moving to a different one when I get frustrated. A lot of times laying down something later will give me the heads up that if I want to set that thing up, I have to go back to an earlier section and do that.

The stronger the bigger picture emerges as I work, the more focused and directed I get in deciding on individual clips and nailing down timing until one day I look up and there's a vid and I'm mildly shocked that it exists.

This is probably the most inefficient method of vidding ever, but it's the one that works for me. I have a really hard time explaining why I think or feel something in organized words, so trying to do so (even to myself) about a vid at the start is just a recipe for failure. Letting my brain do it's whacky thing while I engage in random clip flinging almost always gets me to where I'm 'Oh yeah, I meant THAT'

[killabeez]

Nov 13, 2011 4:24:22 GMT -5 legoline said:

Just out of curiousity, how do you go about these things? I know that with writing some people write chronologically (me, for example, which is why I guess I just tackled vidding the same way) and others just write random scenes and connect them later, so I'm curious if the same applies for vidding?

I write chronologically (usually), but never vid chronologically. Okay, I can't say never. My last second-to-last vid actually was. But almost never!

I like vidding the instrumental parts best. And story wise, I'm most interested in the parts of the song where the music changes. This means I almost always vid the bridge and the ending first. The bridge because of the instrumental/emotional changeover, and the ending because I want to know for sure where I'm going before I construct the rest. I almost always vid the beginning last, because I think the intro is how you set up the vid, and explain to the audience what you're doing.

The only problem with this approach is that sometimes, if the vid is a tough one, I've run out of steam by the time I get to the beginning, and it ends up being weak in comparison to the rest. This is where having an enthusiastic beta is crucial. They will stop me from being lazy and slacking on the beginning. I think you can tell the vids where I didn't have a beta -- the opening is usually lacking in energy, or narratively unfocused.

The other thing that ends up happening sometimes is that I vid the bridge, and then the rest of the timeline sits empty for a year or two until I either abandon it, or go back to it.

[killabeez]

Nov 13, 2011 9:42:09 GMT -5 eunice said:

I pretty much never vid chronologically. My brain is weird or something because a lot of times I have no idea what comes before if I don't know what comes after first.

Me, too! That! Actually, your process sounds a lot like mine. I don't plan out specific clips very often, although I used to when I collaborated long distance. I think my vidding suffers from that, though, whereas I don't see that in your vids -- maybe you're better at maintaining focus than I am.

(Reading messages on this board, I have finally - I think - realized that all these years, I've been misunderstanding when vidders said they "storyboard." Storyboarding to me is a specific thing that relates to animation/illustrated books/film and means an actual story board, with images. I think vidders actually mean outlines, don't they? Or, like, Excel files? Or am I misunderstanding, still?)

[obsessive24]

Nov 13, 2011 12:25:23 GMT -5 killabeez said:

I think vidders actually mean outlines, don't they? Or, like, Excel files? Or am I misunderstanding, still?)

I mean outlines. Sometimes very detailed ones, but yeah, I'd say they're more like outlines than animation/illustrations/film stuff.

[thuviaptarth]

I mean outlines, too. Sometimes reverse outlines, when I'll write up brief descriptions of all the clips I've used in the completed sections to get an idea of what I've already covered and what I've left out. (This also lets me open up the outline and still feel like I'm working on the vid when I'm at the office and can't watch video.)

I am not sure I've ever vidded chronologically straight through. I always do the parts that are clearest in my head first (usually the opening, ending, or bridge) and keep on going until I have to think to fill in the gaps. But I don't tend to write chronologically either.

[thatyourefuse]

I'm in WMM. I don't really have a choice.

I've developed a small workaround for lines I absolutely don't know what to do with, which is to import a single frame of plain black and time it to cover the stretch in question, but in general, yeah, I work VERY VERY chronologically, and I don't always know what my next line is going to look like until I'm working on it, let alone my ending. (There are exceptions. I've known the last shot of "Jacob Marley's Chain" since the minute I sat down to start work on it. But in general.)

I'm slowly teaching myself to outline, which might be of some small interest because I'm not sure I've heard of anyone else doing it the same way I do, but it doesn't come 100% naturally to me.

[dragonchic]

Nov 13, 2011 6:39:27 GMT -5 obsessive24 said:

The choruses tend to be harder for me because they're usually louder and faster, and therefore need more motion and cutting, so I tend to balk at those until I absolutely have to do them.

lol I'm the opposite - I like that the choruses are typically more musically-complex, so I usually see them as a reward for getting through the verses.

I vid somewhat chronologically, in that I divide the vid into natural 20-40 second sections based on the structure of the song and work chronologically from section to section. But within each section I'm likely to skip around, first laying in the clips that I feel strongest about and then filing in the rest.

The one semi-exception is that I'm liable to balk at drum fills and leave them blank. I do usually force myself to fill them in once I'm done with the rest of a particular section but man, I'm never happy about it.

[killabeez]

Nov 13, 2011 13:01:34 GMT -5 thuviaptarth said:

I mean outlines, too.

It's a relief to me to have finally figured this out. For years I've thought I was lame and lazy (okay, I am lazy) because I didn't do storyboards. I pictured some complex process you all were using with screencaps and notes and timecodes and stuff.

[eunice]

Nov 13, 2011 14:04:45 GMT -5 killabeez said:

Nov 13, 2011 13:01:34 GMT -5 thuviaptarth said:

I mean outlines, too.

It's a relief to me to have finally figured this out. For years I've thought I was lame and lazy (okay, I am lazy) because I didn't do storyboards. I pictured some complex process you all were using with screencaps and notes and timecodes and stuff.

Back in the day when I was still vidding as part of a pair, my other half had spreadsheets with clip notes and lyric notes and stuff. One of the reasons it took me two years to go solo after she stopped vidding is because I would think about that and PANIC that there was no way in hell I could ever do that.

Once I figured out I could do it in a way that worked with my messy, lazy, brain it all worked out.