Concrit vs. Obnoxiousness

[FitzPro]

I don't mind when people watch my videos and offer constructive criticism such as clips not working, pace not matching the song, or clips not suitable for the lyrics. Honest to goodness, I try to take concrit in stride (even though it hurts sometimes since vidding is so very personal) and learn what I can from it.

However, it really irritates me when someone leaves comments on my videos that are nothing more than "You should have left the color alone" or "not impressed by this". Inevitably, when people make statements like this, I always check to see if they are vidders themselves, and they never are - not that I can find anywhere at least.

I try to brush it off, reminding myself that it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time. However, it tends to get to me at times. So I want to know how everyone else deals with those obnoxious viewers who think they know better for your video than you do, even though they've never opened an editing program.

[obsessive24]

I'm really sorry to hear that obnoxious comments got you down. *hugs*

I have to admit I don't usually get obnoxious comments because I'm mostly cocooned in LJ vidding communities, don't share on YT, etc. It really irks me that in certain communities like YT a lot of posters seem eager in just voicing their negative opinions without having the knowledge or even the guts to back up their statements. It irks me because it's not commonly acceptable behaviour in RL, and it seems like they're only doing it online because they feel like they won't suffer the same repercussions as they would in RL.

Personally, I would ignore them. Of course you could engage and politely ask whether they could support their opinion with any specific suggestions, but honestly, I don't put a lot of trust in the kind of people who'd leave such comments in the first place, that they'd come back and give you a better-reasoned explanation and actually engage in a dialogue. Maybe I'm just overly misanthropic and judgmental (I know I am, but I'm not gonna apologise for it until I see some evidence that will change my mind), but I don't see much value in engaging with people like that.

[legoline]

Dec 28, 2011 10:20:30 GMT -5 FitzPro said:

So I want to know how everyone else deals with those obnoxious viewers who think they know better for your video than you do, even though they've never opened an editing program.

To be honest I've never quite understood the "You cannot have an opinion because you're not a vidder/writer/musician" approach. I've never directed a film but I can still tell when I like what a director has done with a movie. I've never been an actress but I can still tell when someone's not good at it. I've never published a book but I can tell you exactly what worked in a book for me and what didn't. That's the thing with art, I guess. You don't have to be an artist to appreciate it or comment on it.

That said, however, I think there is no merit in leaving comments like "Not impressed" and I guess I'd just ignore them. Either they were left by grumpy people beyond our help or they were posted to be spiteful.

[dragonchic]

I think you tend to be a little more forgiving of minor imperfections when you've actually vidded yourself. In my experience people who have never vidded are more likely to pick at bits of timing that are a bit off or other minor technical issues whereas vidders understand that everything can't be perfect. I usually see this on more technical- rather than narrative-focused communities so I don't know if the same holds for minor narrative issues but it wouldn't surprise me.

[obsessive24]

Dec 28, 2011 12:38:17 GMT -5 legoline said:

To be honest I've never quite understood the "You cannot have an opinion because you're not a vidder/writer/musician" approach.

I don't mind if they're not in the practice; I only mind if they can't support their assertions. I think there's no link between an unsupported opinon and an opinion from a "lay person" - like you with your example of not being an actress but being able to tell when someone's acting isn't good - because you wouldn't just be like "your acting sucks" and leave it at that; you'd be able to give examples and support that opinion.

Although as dragonchic says, there is a certain amount of - well, I would like to challenge the "minor imperfections" comment, for me it's more a question of a vidder being able to understand what can actually be achieved versus what a viewer thinks can be achieved but it isn't until they've tried vidding it themselves that they find out that maybe it can't work the way they imagined it would. Which is probably her point anyway, except now I've gone and said in 50 words what she said in 10. ;D We've gone into that recently in our mutual betas where we've told each other to use clips that don't actually exist in the canon, that we just made up in our heads. Except in that situation, we can tell each other and poke our tongues out, whereas if it's just some random commenter who said it and ran away, you never get that right of reply, which is annoying.

I think I've strayed off-topic somewhere in that run-on sentence...

[franzeska]

I don't think comments like that are always spiteful. But they're not concrit either.

A lot of people treat youtube like a magical font of entertainment without giving a lot of thought to where that content comes from or who makes it. Snarky comments may be directed, half-consciously, at an imagined audience of fellow viewers or the friend who sent them the link rather than the vidder, even when they're criticisms of the editing.

Also, am I as a vidder generously sharing with fandom, or am I asking for people's attention and they're giving me a gift by taking the time to watch? I always think those "not impressed" type comments come from the latter view.

Or maybe those people are just jerks. I don't know. But no vidder owes them a conversation, especially since they're obviously not looking for one.

[obsessive24]

Oooh, these are some great points franzeska.

[dragonchic]

Dec 28, 2011 13:11:42 GMT -5 obsessive24 said:

for me it's more a question of a vidder being able to understand what can actually be achieved versus what a viewer thinks can be achieved but it isn't until they've tried vidding it themselves that they find out that maybe it can't work the way they imagined it would. Which is probably her point anyway, except now I've gone and said in 50 words what she said in 10. ;D

haha, that was basically what I meant. I added the "minor" descriptive because I do think it's fair to point out more serious shortcomings, even if it's due to a lack of appropriate source or technical feasibility or whatever. At some point if you're not going to come close to what you're trying to do it's better not to try IMO, but YMMV.

franzeska makes a really good point about how some comments seem to be more for the benefit of an external audience rather than the vidder. They probably look at it as akin to snarking on the source material on a message board or something.

[jackiek]

I agree with Franzi about the culture of youtube comments and how they don't always seem to be directed toward the creator and are as often as not intended as an instant reaction sent off to the wold at large.

It might be helpful to look at the comments on other youtube vids that you admire and see what sorts of things have been said.

Maybe if some of those vids are getting similar comments, it will make them feel less like a personal attack. If it continues to be upsetting, you may want to rethink posting to youtube. There are quite a few vidders (like me) who don't and the comment culture is a small part of that.

I don't mean that as a criticism of Youtube or of you. It has its own history and meaning and has evolved in a particular way to meet all sorts of expectations that don't necessarily fit with what I want when I am posting a vid. It's not so much that Youtube is wrong as that it doesn't feel right to me.

[FitzPro]

Wow, there have been lots of responses, and I want to try to hit on most of the things; though I'm sure I will definitely miss a bunch.

legoline - I'm not saying that in order to comment or watch you have to be a vidder yourself. However, the meaningless, snarky comments that do nothing but provoke tend to come from non-vidders. If a fellow vidder sees something that could be done better, they provide that info to me. If one isn't going to say something productive (flattering or otherwise), it's best to just keep quiet. Likewise, it's always the people who pull out the "I would have done it this way....." bit who have never vidded before. That's when I say "Please, go ahead and do it that way then."

jackiek - I've never posted my videos anywhere other than youtube (except on the rare occasions youtube blocks it and I'm forced elsewhere). I'm not inclined to leave it soon, as the feedback is generally appropriate, and I have many friends there. It's just those odd comments here and there that irk me.

franzeska - I agree that a ton of youtube users give no consideration to the time and energy, much less the heart that a vidder puts into their creation. I've chased trolls off of friends' videos before for their rude, baseless comments.

[jansam]

Dec 28, 2011 10:20:30 GMT -5 FitzPro said:

I try to brush it off, reminding myself that it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time. However, it tends to get to me at times. So I want to know how everyone else deals with those obnoxious viewers who think they know better for your video than you do, even though they've never opened an editing program.

I don't put my vids up on YT anymore but I do remember getting one negative comment among many positive comments. That one negative had me puzzled and yeah a little down because I wanted to know how I failed to get my "meaning" across to them. He commented that he failed to see how it related to the song but then the others said they loved how the song fit the vid. So I guess I'm saying that you have to just remember exactly what you said above; you can't please everyone. When it really bothers you, ask another vidder that you trust to take a look. That is why this place is so great, you get that kind of feedback from people whose opinion you can trust.

[amnisias]

Just agreeing with what Nicki and others have said above, I think this is predominantly a YT thing ... on LJ all feedback seems to be either positive or appropriately concrit. My impression from other people's vids seems to be that 'anything goes', but feedback tends to be short and snappy (both positive and negative) rather than detailed and specific. It appears overall very transient, people come by design or accident, have a thought, type it up and disappear, and just as likely as not never come back. Depending what they were looking for in the first place their feedback is more or less meaningful. Some people clearly use YT as their personal therapeutic anger bat and enjoy leaving derogatory feedback.

I can totally see the attraction of using YT to get your vids out there, but it's a pay off - large audience, but accordingly random comments. I can only see two ways to solve that, either ignoring the irritating comments, or just using YT to post vids but disable commenting and using LJ for commenting.

[obsessive24]

Dec 29, 2011 7:52:07 GMT -5 amnisias said:

I can totally see the attraction of using YT to get your vids out there, but it's a pay off - large audience, but accordingly random comments.

*nod nod* I've been wrestling myself for ages over whether or not to post to YT, and primarily the decision rests on this, I think. Time for a new thread topic methinks.