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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 28, 2011 9:40:23 GMT -5
LOL you guys take the cake with people submitting your stolen vids back at you. What I really can't understand is if they win awards, what do they get out of it, exactly?  Or if they get good comments or whatever. They know it's not their own work, so why would awards or good feedback mean anything to them? |
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Post by amnisias on Dec 29, 2011 8:21:04 GMT -5
@ dragonchic: LMAO! That's so brilliantly stupid it should get an award...
With regards to clip theft, I don't have a strong opinion. I use watermarks as a precaution and afaik it hasn't happened to me (advantage of keeping a low profile). I would not WANT anybody to use my vids, and depending on how and why it's done I might get quite upset about it.
On the other hand I am acutely aware that there are a number of creative people in the film/tv industry feeling just the same way about me taking their footage and hard work for something it was not intended for ( and I am not talking about the studios here and financial issues) - and I can't really argue with that.
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 29, 2011 8:41:23 GMT -5
On the other hand I am acutely aware that there are a number of creative people in the film/tv industry feeling just the same way about me taking their footage and hard work for something it was not intended for ( and I am not talking about the studios here and financial issues) - and I can't really argue with that. Well, I wouldn't really argue with that position, but I can just plainly disagree. ;D If that creator is coming from a purely "my creations are my babies and I don't want you to fuck with my babies" perspective like Rowling not wanting to envision that people would want to slash Harry/Snape or whatever, I can understand that, but mostly I feel like once the work is out there, then it's available for remix culture, and it's not like the remix is taking away anything from the original creation. A bit closer to home, if we appreciate the camerawork of a source and use it in a vid, it's not like we're saying "Actually it was me who came up with the camerawork in this shot." Instead, we're saying "I appreciated the camerawork of this shot so much that I incorporated it into my remix project." And coming back to clip theft, I feel like clip theft is often about the former, about the clip thief making an overt or implied representation to the effect of "I made up these edits myself" as opposed to "I liked those edits so much that I incorporated it into my own remix project." And even if they seek to rely on the latter being their motivation rather than straight passing-off-as-their-own, I guess there are still couple of questions of (1) how much additional personal creative input they had in order to make this their own remix project rather than straight-up plagiarism; and (2) whether they credited the original vid. Which in vidding we do, if only generally, by stating what source the clips are originally from. |
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Post by legoline on Dec 29, 2011 9:45:20 GMT -5
They know it's not their own work, so why would awards or good feedback mean anything to them? I don't think these people strive for the same feedback we do. If I create something, I love to hear that what I had to say about a certain character or subject resonated with the audience (or didn't). It's a conversation to some extent. I guess most of the people who steal things just want to "famous", for a lack of better word. They want to have a big followship, they want to become BNFs (or whatever). It's probably for the same reasons why some people push their own fanfics by having sockpuppet accounts praising them. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 29, 2011 9:53:00 GMT -5
I'm just seriously flummoxed by the idea of anyone enjoying any sort of praise/fame/yayness that they know they don't actually deserve because they didn't do any of the work behind it. (Or maybe they do feel like they deserve it? I dunno. I feel like I'm starting to veer off into "automatic sense of entitlement" territory.)
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Post by dragonchic on Dec 29, 2011 12:31:25 GMT -5
I agree with legoline, I think it is more about getting "famous" and external recognition, even if they know they didn't earn it. Some people draw greater value from external rather than internal validation of their achievements, so whether or not they themselves think they deserve it probably doesn't matter.
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 29, 2011 15:13:29 GMT -5
Some people draw greater value from external rather than internal validation of their achievements Well, I can understand that, but that's the thing, it's not their achievement. So I'm just curious and confused about whether they think they're adding value, or taking part in the creative process, or what. |
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Post by legoline on Dec 29, 2011 18:35:26 GMT -5
So I'm just curious and confused about whether they think they're adding value, or taking part in the creative process, or what. I don't think it matters to them, really. They just want to get praised at all costs. Be admired, to some extent. |
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Post by gnattery on Dec 29, 2011 19:15:46 GMT -5
Perhaps they feel like they deserve the praise, because they're sure that if they did vid, they would get it. So they're just taking a shorter route to getting the praise they would get either way. But I doubt that's a conscious process going on. I think as far as they're concerned they just want to get famous and stealing is way easier.
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Post by absolutedestiny on Dec 30, 2011 13:08:51 GMT -5
I think my feelings on clip theft came from thinking about the kind of people who might want to use parts of my vids. Here's a list: 1) People who understand the effort you've put into your vid but really just want to use one or two scenes without taking your edits because the footage is hard for them to get. These vidders are not a problem. In fact, you probably like these vidders and many of them will take the time to ask. 2) People who are making meta-vids These vidders almost *always* in my experience, ask first. Again not a problem. 3) People who don't really get what makes your editing any different from the original source and just want something they can stick some music onto. Being annoyed at this kind of vidder is pointless - they didn't see any unique creative value in your vid and they likely wont understand what the big deal is. That they chose your vid over, I dunno, a trailer, is probably just because your vid doesn't say THIS SUMMER NOUNS WILL VERB. 4) People who want to steal your cool effect and put it in their vid. These vidders are annoying. However, the fact that they've stolen something clearly hand-made is a sign that they don't care. It's just footage to them and attribution is not their concern. They are similar to the next type of vidder. 5) People who want to take credit for your vid, verbatim. These people don't give a shit about your ownership of the vid and if you call them on it they are likely to be beligerent and sometimes claim *you* stole *their* vid, especially if your vid isn't, say, on youtube and theirs is. These people don't care about watermarks - they are perfectly happy putting an even bigger logo over yours. Really, when it comes to all-out vid theft, it's better to just post about it on your own lj/blog/twitter and let the comments do the rest. That's about as good as you'll get and no amount of clip protection will help. So given these kinds of vidders, what should be done, if anything, to stop them? Well, most people who want to protect against clip theft do vid watermarking. How does watermarking affect the above vidders? 1) Hate watermarks  It actually limits a useful vid resource. 2) Don't care about them either way 3) What's a watermark? 4) Could be turned off by a watermark 5) Never turned off by a watermark So really, the reason to watermark is to stop people stealing clips of your best editing moments. I get that but really, if the editing is so distinctive it will stand out as yours anyway and if it's not that distinctive then what's going to stop them just copying you with their own footage. Doesn't seem worth getting stressed about. td;dr - the people who steal clips don't understand, don't care and neither do the people who watch their vids and if a theft is blatant enough your own fans will defend you anyway. |
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Post by obsessive24 on Dec 30, 2011 13:34:41 GMT -5
Hmm, it's an interesting breakdown, but personally I think I watermark for a reason that isn't really relevant to clip theft. I started watermarking to prevent clip theft, but that reason has faded into the background by now. These days I watermark because I like leaving a constant signature on my work. I'm into fashion and I see that as analogous to design motifs that point to the piece as being from a certain designer. I've talked about it elsewhere as being almost subliminal advertising/branding, which I find a fascinating concept regardless of whether it works in practice.
If viewers find that it detracts from the work as a whole, that's too bad, but I've personally never been as much of a perfectionist as that. As for the other view that the work itself should be distinctive enough to not need the watermark... I don't think my work has gotten to that place yet. ;D So all of this is pretty off-topic re: clip theft, but I want to throw out there that there are potentially other reasons to watermark.
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Post by astarte on Jan 2, 2012 9:39:23 GMT -5
Yeah, my watermark is my signature. I don't include my name in my vids anymore, sure I do vidname-astarte and my watermark is faded to almost invisible by now. But I like to have it there and I don't think it distracts too badly, you really have to focus on the right-bottom corner to 'see' it. It has nothing to do with clip theft, because like absolutedestiny said, you can't educate people who don't want to learn. *shrugs*
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Post by thedothatgirl on Jan 2, 2012 10:26:26 GMT -5
I, like Obsessive24, began watermarking because of clip theft.
Now I watermark as a signature. The symbol I use actually comprises of my initials and is quite tiny. I don't feel it to be too distracting. It's not going to deter the clip thieves but that's not why I use it now.
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Post by charmax on Jan 2, 2012 13:08:55 GMT -5
I used to watermark my vids but stopped because it never deterred the vid thieves and I was never that keen on them anyway. I can understand using it as a signature though and whilst watching vids with them in it doesn't bother me.
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xandra
New to the Pub
Posts: 49
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Post by xandra on Jan 2, 2012 16:47:50 GMT -5
Yep my watermark came from clip theft as well. Funny enough people kept using my clips with it. It used to bother me but not so much anymore, just became the last of the finishing touch on the vid. If I'm doing a really obscure fandom I tend not to worry about it to much but it usually goes on as a force of habit. It's only really use lately has been covering up network tags.
Mine are my initials and like Nicky, it is a lot about signing my work. I don't really noticed it when I'm watching my own vid anymore. Mostly because i keep upping the transparency and refined it a couple of times.
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Or if they get good comments or whatever. They know it's not their own work, so why would awards or good feedback mean anything to them?
It actually limits a useful vid resource.
