|
|
Post by franzeska on Dec 22, 2011 13:23:42 GMT -5
I just noticed there was no Fanlore article on clip theft. I imagine all of us here have pretty similar views on it, but it's really not obvious to an outsider as evidenced by the many rounds of "But you steal clips from tv shows" every time someone makes a public post complaining about it. What should go in the Fanlore article? How do you define clip theft and why is it a problem? We do re-edit footage previously edited by other editors; what makes clip theft different? Lots of vids use the same few popular clips over and over and over; how do you know something is clip theft and not the fannish hive mind? What about re-using almost the same set of clips but getting them by ripping the DVDs, not from the vid that served as inspiration: What would you call that, and do you consider it plagiarism/bad manners/etc. Discuss. fanlore.org/wiki/Clip_Theft |
|
tm
New to the Pub
T.M. Productions
Posts: 10
|
Post by tm on Dec 22, 2011 14:19:26 GMT -5
I was recently the victim of clip theft. (I'm still a little in shock.) The vidder took a bunch of my clips from two vids with a similar tone and rearranged them. I recognized my clips immediately because of color, quality, slight speed changes, and especially the way I cut the clips for effect and mood. I was a little surprised to see how easy it was to recognize my own work. The vidder admitted to using my clips, giving the "well, we all steal, so I thought it'd be okay" defense and took her vid down.
I have re-ripped my source with watermarks (though they can be cropped out), but I am weary of the vidder remaking the same vid in the future using her clips, but my cuts...
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonchic on Dec 22, 2011 14:37:53 GMT -5
To me the thing that clip theft different from regular vidding is that in vidding there's a tacit acknowledgement that the original editors get "credit" for source edits, and that anything that's altered from the source version is the work of the vidder. When you steal clips with original edits or effects you're essentially taking credit for alterations that aren't your doing. I watermark my vids so clip theft is easily noticeable. If someone's using the same set of clips as another vid I don't consider that clip theft if they're going back to the source and pulling the clips themselves. Now if they do that and exactly copy the same set of clips it *could* be a kind of plagiarism. Depends on how original the copied sequence was (I'd be more sensitive to that in a constructed reality vid, for example). I have to say though, I'm much more annoyed when people outright take credit for my vids or take a vid and just lay it over another song. At least clip thieves are making a tiny bit of effort.  |
|
tm
New to the Pub
T.M. Productions
Posts: 10
|
Post by tm on Dec 22, 2011 14:50:10 GMT -5
Well, yeah...the vidder worked very hard in rearranging my clips *g* And, yes, I wouldn't like if this person just copied the vid in its entirety. But there was a feeling of sneaky deception in the way this vidder did it.
It's all about fandom etiquette.
|
|
|
|
Post by obsessive24 on Dec 22, 2011 18:10:00 GMT -5
The time that it pissed me off the most was when someone took one of my vids that had a lot of techy artwork and effects, and put a completely different song over it, then chopped off my ending credits and put their own ending credits on. And they were getting positive comments on YT, I suspect primarily because of the effects and artwork. And it's like, what the fuck. The song completely doesn't even match the visuals, but does anyone care? Apparently not.
If they'd stolen just my edits and set it to a different song, but in a way that it worked, I dunno, I'd probably be quite tickled. ;D But only if it worked. Because then, even though it's a bit odd and a bit taboo, it still shows ingenuity and original creativity on the part of that vidder.
But I just have such loathing for dishonesty and especially self-delusion in any form, so passing someone else's hard work for your own is IMO one of the worst personal defects you could have, and one that needs to be bitch-slapped out of you. I just don't get what kind of ridiculous levels of no-self-respect you'd have to sink to to go there.
(I note I'm talking about appropriating entire vids or at least large chunks of vid. I tend to be more forgiving if the person is, say, just lacking source and their primary goal was to obtain source rather than appropriate your edits.)
I think we glean inspiration from (and subconsciously plagiarise) other vidders all the time. And coincidences happen too, of course. Allow me to put on my lawyer hat wig for a moment and say that I think there are two parts to this "crime": (1) you need physical clip/edit identicalness (either because they just imported your vid onto their timeline, or they sourced their own source but copied your edits and clip choices exactly); and (2) you need some kind of intention.
If it's a coincidence, then there's no intention and therefore no fault. If the vidder didn't intend to land their edits/clip choices like yours but sort of subconsciously did so, then there's no fully coherent intention and the question for me turns on what they choose to do when they realise. Or they could have fully been aware of what they're doing and trying to pass your original vision (in how the clips and edits are arranged) off as their own, in which case I go back to the bitch-slap scenario.
|
|
tm
New to the Pub
T.M. Productions
Posts: 10
|
Post by tm on Dec 22, 2011 19:50:21 GMT -5
if the person is, say, just lacking source and their primary goal was to obtain source rather than appropriate your edits.) Actually, that was the case....this vidder had very poor source. And, well, my source was pretty. And the reason my clips worked (for her), was because of my hours and hours of searching for clips to match a specific tone of a certain kind of song. Part of the thrill of vidding (for me) is to create something new or different, or as original as I can get in my fandom, whether it's to tell a new story, or work a simplified theme with a different kind of visual/effect. But after all the work, I do have a relationship with my vids. And when someone is "cheating" with them, I get protective. |
|
|
|
Post by franzeska on Dec 22, 2011 23:13:09 GMT -5
Yeah, so far I do very little to clean up my clips--no color correction, no speed changes, no effects most of the time--so I probably wouldn't notice someone using my vids as source and might not care if I did notice. (But then again, it hasn't happened yet, so...)
|
|
nos
Pub Regular
Posts: 95
|
Post by nos on Dec 22, 2011 23:54:19 GMT -5
I haven't yet been the victim of clip theft, but I have seen it a ton. Most recently I watched a video where someone had taken clips from an extremely well done video I adored, and just stuck them in their own video. I contacted the original vidder, but I don't think they wanted to make a fuss, so I didn't either :/
Not really clip theft, but I was once working on a project. The person running it told me make a bit of a music video, more like a trailer, and so I did. Spent hours on it, it ran just under a minute. When I turned it in, the person was all 'Oh, but I wanted you to use this one section of the song...Oh well, I'll fix it..." And then just replaced the music with the section they wanted... o.O I was a little flabbergasted. I doubt anyone noticed, but I sure did and OMG it wasn't right anymore, and my NAME was on it, and gah.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonchic on Dec 23, 2011 1:30:25 GMT -5
If they'd stolen just my edits and set it to a different song, but in a way that it worked, I dunno, I'd probably be quite tickled. ;D That's essentially what vid mashups are, no? Albeit with actual credit given to the original vidder. When done well they can be really fun. A few years ago, someone who liked my S4 Smallville vid ( It's Not Over) sent me a section of the vid set to The Doom Song from Invader Zim. Seeing all of Clark's angst and general misery from the Reckoning arc set to a little voice going "doom doom doom doom!" was highly amusing. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by thedothatgirl on Dec 23, 2011 4:40:27 GMT -5
I think I've had clips, complete sections of vids (i.e more than 30 seconds) whole vids/different songs and complete vids and credits taken and reposted - usually YouTube. I've had people repost vids as theirs and asked people not to steal clips from it as they have worked really hard on it.
This is one of the reasons I watermark vids and that I now post some vids on YouTube. I figure seeing as my vids are most likely on there already in some format, I'll put up the real ones. I also get alot of other vidders letting me know when they see any rogue clips.
Using little clips is forgiveable if the vidder is a noob and unaware that this practice is frowned upon. I'm happy to help with source too, but the passing off whole vids is just insane and is a surefire way to get my blood pressure to rise.
IRRC I've even had someone submit a vid to my awards site with some of my clips in it!
|
|
|
|
Post by FitzPro on Dec 23, 2011 9:01:20 GMT -5
There were two times I'm aware of being a victim of clip theft. In one the person gave me credit in their video, so I didn't really get too upset about it. Of course, this person took one of my faster-paced videos and paired it with another vidder's clips from a slow-paced video. The clip placement didn't even make much sense. So I can only assume that this person was brand new to vidding and didn't know any better.
The second time, someone took my entire video and recopied it with a new song. THAT had me fuming.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonchic on Dec 23, 2011 11:16:37 GMT -5
IRRC I've even had someone submit a vid to my awards site with some of my clips in it! LOL, I had someone submit one of my vids in its entirety to my awards site. They removed the credits and replaced it with theirs. When I confronted them they claimed I must've stolen it too because they got it from someone named bananainpyjamas on LiveJournal. |
|
|
|
Post by killabeez on Dec 23, 2011 12:05:20 GMT -5
The second time, someone took my entire video and recopied it with a new song. THAT had me fuming. If that's ever happened to me, I never found out about it—but as open as I usually am to other fans using my stuff, that would piss me off. It still kinda tweaks me that people who have posted my vids to YouTube have not only never had them taken down (wtf Closer), but are allowed to make money off them through click throughs. How much you want to bet that if I posted Closer to YT today, it would be deleted? As for watermarking, I've actually seen people take a watermarked video and put their own watermark over it in order to steal it. In one case, I think they did it deliberately to get back at the vidder who'd tried to "own" the clips by watermarking them in the first place. People are weird. This is where having a community of vidders helps, because although it won't stop stupid and sad people from doing dumb stuff, it does make it sting a lot less when you know that you have a peer group you care about, who all know the difference between vidding and stealing. (yay VidPub! *waves pompoms*) |
|
|
|
Post by franzeska on Dec 24, 2011 11:31:47 GMT -5
How much you want to bet that if I posted Closer to YT today, it would be deleted? The gods of irony would demand it! ;D BTW, I've started a Fanlore page on "context collapse" since it was mentioned in the page on Closer and not defined. I think it's so interesting that somebody is doing academic work on that concept. (You know: The "hey, random bloggers, Closer did not come from nowhere. You just weren't the intended audience." concept.) fanlore.org/wiki/Context_Collapse |
|
|
|
Post by thedothatgirl on Dec 26, 2011 10:56:56 GMT -5
Haha! You win with that one. Anyway that Bananapj girl - always nicking your stuff.
|
|
