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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 8:35:42 GMT -5
We've had a bit of interest over here about seeing someone's vidding process transparently from start to finish, and apparently I'm a glutton for punishment, so here goes nothing. I'm going to document my progress by "working days". Every day that I work on this vid (which may not be every day), at the end of that day, I'll export the timeline as it stands and upload that video, and also post a screencap of the program at the end of that working day. I'll also write some short notes about significant things that happened in the vidding process that day. Hopefully this will strike a good balance between informative disclosure and not making the documentation process too onerous. So I propose to start that way, and if anyone has any specific questions or requests, I can answer them as they arise. Sound good?
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 8:58:27 GMT -5
PLEASE NOTE that this process will spoil for Game of Thrones season 1, and it would be a shame to be spoiled if you did have an interest in seeing the show. With that in mind, onward! Working day 0 - vid concept, pre-editing preparations Fandom: Game of Thrones Song: Iron by Woodkid. You can listen to the song via this TV ad for Assassin's Creed IV, which is how I found the song. Concept notes: I initially didn't want to vid GoT now, because I wanted more seasons of footage to make a bigger, more encompassing vid that alluded to future book events and some of my own book speculations. But my husband convinced me that I might as well just make a vid for s1, so I'm making this as an anniversary present for him. The concept is basically the s1 story of the Stark family, broadly following the show plotline and chronology. I'm going to try and allude to some future book events to the extent that I'm able, but they shouldn't be apparent unless you know exactly what you're looking for. I haven't storyboarded this and am mostly playing by ear, trusting that the small amount of source (10 x 50-min episodes) is not going to be too difficult to sort through and work with. If I had a lot more source than this, I'd probably rewatch and take notes and write up some sort of storyboard before I start editing. Pre-editing preparationsMy video source is Xvid AVIs. My program (Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10.0) doesn't like these as a direct import, so I''ve converted them to MPEG-2 using Prism, a piece of paid software. There are alternative freeware suggestions over in the Vegas tech thread. I maintained video specs at 624x352, at 23.976fps - same as the Xvid AVI specs. My audio source is an MP3. Again, my program gets finnicky with MP3s, so I've converted it to a WAV using freeware Audacity. Now I'm ready to start, so I set up a new project in Vegas with these video specs. screencapThe audio and other specs I just left at the defaults. And now I'm ready to import the audio and video files and make a start! See you at the end of Working Day 1.
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Post by legoline on Nov 13, 2011 9:37:03 GMT -5
Ooooh, it's interesting that you use Xvid avis. From what I gathered from FoolishPassion org, doing that seemed to be a complete No-No because the files are so compressed and there are frames missing which make precise editing harder--does that change when you convert them to MPEG-2? After reading the tutorial from the website I've only used DVD rips so far (and will use converted mkvs once I'm done with my Festivid assignement), but naturally there's lots of things I'd like to vid that I don't own on DVD because it's not out yet. Also, thank you for doing this!
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 13, 2011 9:42:45 GMT -5
I'm sure tech purists are shaking their heads at my process all over the place. ;D For me, the xvid AVIs are what I have available so that's what I use. If I had DVDs, I'd rip my own source. If frames are missing, I don't think converting to MPEG-2 will help restore them or anything.
The way I feel about it is that it's better to just start with whatever you have, and learn and fix your tech along the way and find out what works for you, rather than get scared at all the tecchies telling you that you can't do this and you can't do that and becoming so paralysed with fear and tech overload that you end up not doing anything.
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eunice
Pub Enthusiast
Posts: 116
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Post by eunice on Nov 13, 2011 9:56:18 GMT -5
Eh, I vid with avis all the time. I prefer to work with DVD source, but buying everything I have an interest in vidding ever is not financially possible, and sometimes what I want to vid isn't even available on DVD in the first place. Using avisynth cuts down on hassles, and pretty much aside from some random stray frame issues it's not a big problem. Most avis these days are pretty enough that it doesn't make that big a difference in final quality (especially for web exports). Obviously there's some difference, just not one I think is a deal breaker. Super shiny is nice, but not necessary.
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Post by legoline on Nov 13, 2011 12:10:30 GMT -5
Nicky, eunice, I'm so very relieved to hear that. ;D I've had so many ideas for vids that I didn't even tackle because I didn't have the DVD source material, it's not even funny. But now! Things are gonna change!
(On the other hand, it was always been a nice excuse to buy shiny new DVDs... *glances at Doctor Who box sets*)
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Post by suchheights on Nov 13, 2011 12:47:44 GMT -5
This is really interesting, thanks for starting this, Nicky! And yes, I agree regarding source quality - I don't have that much money for DVDs, although I do try and get hold of hi-res mkvs when I can, especially for sources I know I'll be using a lot. That takes up a lot of hard drive space, though.
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Post by dragonchic on Nov 13, 2011 13:49:41 GMT -5
Adding to the chorus of AVI vidders. My eyes aren't sharp enough to see much of a difference between starting with AVI vs. DVD source once you compress the vid for distribution. Plus Premiere CS4 plays fairly nice with AVIs as a direct import so that adds to the convenience factor. This is very cool Nicky! ;D Can't wait to get a peek into how the magic happens.
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Post by gnattery on Nov 13, 2011 21:21:44 GMT -5
Oh wow, you're starting this already! I think it'll be really interesting to get a peek into how someone else does it.
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Post by thuviaptarth on Nov 13, 2011 23:18:00 GMT -5
Thanks for doing this, Nicky -- process fascinates me.
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 14, 2011 3:11:25 GMT -5
Working Day 1Stream WD1 vid draft at Vimeo (password: WD1) Screencap of timeline at end of WD1There is a mostly full timeline from start to 1:14, then mostly just black space until 2:25, and then mostly full until the end. I was going to put in text placeholders to give a feel of where I'm going with the structure, but quickly realised I didn't know myself, so it's all flying by the seat of my pants here. ;D I exported to Lagarith AVI from Vegas, then converted to xvid AVI using AutoGK because I'm more comfortable using AutoGK for 2-pass encoding, rather than directly encoding from Vegas. (Also because later I'm going to need external software to do post-production anyway.) Screencap of export settingsScreencap of AutoGK settingsProgress notes: - Started by putting down the "cornerstone clips" that I envisioned when listening to the song. E.g. ending. - Other than those, I can't remember specific clips/scenes, so I started rewatching the source from the start at 2x speed. If I see a clip that looked promising, I drag it down to the timeline and try to make it sit nicely. So far I've made it through... the pilot. ;D - Clips on Track 2 (bottom video track) are those that I'm fairly okay with as a "real" clip choice for that part of the vid, subject to tweaking. - Clips on Track 1 (top video track) are interesting-looking clips that I just dragged onto the timeline. I'll move them around and either find places for them on Track 1, or get rid of them at some point. - Narrator is Ned, but the perspective is wider than Ned because it needs to encompass all Starks. Generally the bits with vocals will be Ned-centric whereas choruses would be wider Stark family. - Narrative is broadly circular in that it starts with Ned walking to execution and ends with the execution. Everything in between can be viewed as semi-flashbacks chronicling the s1 plotline. - Need to credit opening titles Stark sigil - titch-ix.deviantart.com/art/Game-of-Thrones-Stark-212979090- Haven't added any motion/effects yet. May do later, or just leave it unembellished, depending on how a full draft looks. Need to think about: - King of the North/Jon ranging beyond Wall bit at end doesn't sit as well as expected. Disrupts emotional flow of Ned's execution. Move, or try to make it work? - not pleased with colour saturation levels of source. Won't fix it now, but will do fiddle later in the process in post-production. - Present time and flashbacks are a bit mixed up in storytelling. Not sure they are sufficiently delineated through colouring alone. How to make more obvious? - How much Lannister & Robert presence is ideal for narrative? Next steps: - watch more source from 1x02 onward, try to fill up more timeline, maybe tweak existing parts. That's it for now. If you have any questions or want to see anything specific on the timeline, please ask. Hopefully I'll have time to work more on the vid tomorrow.
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Post by dragonchic on Nov 14, 2011 5:05:11 GMT -5
Oooh very cool. All those clips in the beginning are from the pilot? It all looks great but I'm guessing you may have some painful decisions to make in terms of what ends up making it to the final draft. Should be very interesting to see. It's also funny to see you utilize two tracks to distinguish between "this really belongs here" and "whee this looks neat." I do that too, except in reverse (I put the "this looks cool, I should use it somewhere" clips on a higher track). Also I suspect I just spoiled myself terribly for GoT. haha, oh well.
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Post by amnisias on Nov 14, 2011 7:00:19 GMT -5
Oh my god, end of DAY ONE, and you've got half a timeline full of clips?! I'm feeling so deflated now, it takes me weeks to get to that point - yes, just to have a rough cut ... I'm also interested to see that you export the file uncompressed and then convert it with another programme. Why do you not use SV to convert the file? I'm doing the same thing because I couldn't work out the SV settings without running into some kind of problem (aspect ratio, mostly), so I'm curious to see you do it the same way.
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Post by obsessive24 on Nov 14, 2011 8:38:25 GMT -5
dragonchic - yeah, pretty much all clips can be considered a rough draft atm, just because I can't remember what cool clips are gonna come later. I suspect the final will look quite different. (Or maybe not, because I'm lazy.) I disclaimed all responsibility for spoilage earlier, so it's your own fault. But boo for spoilage. This is one fandom where spoilage actually matters a lot. amnisias - I get the feeling that I do vid on the fast side, so I wouldn't get deflated if I were you! I think all that it means is that I'm not picky about clip choice and will just plonk down anything going "eh, it's good enough, it'll do." Mostly, it's because I don't know how to export two-pass encoding from Vegas. ;D But even if I did, sometimes Vegas still throws weird fits when I try to export in xvid. Not sure why, but haven't really bothered to find out since I do have workarounds that I'm used to. Also, later I'm going to need to run the vid through Virtualdub using avisynth to do post-production colouring, so either way I'd rather export to lossless AVI and then do all the web encoding/finalisation stuff outside of Vegas.
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Post by winterjasmine on Nov 14, 2011 9:22:31 GMT -5
obsessive24I'm hoping I'm not the only one sitting here thinking 'hmm... your first draft, day one, looks better than my final draft, day 365 ho hum' ;D Seriously, it's great to see this and I'm sure there are loads of us who are going to learn such a lot. Thanks for taking the time to do this for us. Jaz
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